outboards

[March]

vkmaynard » Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:22 pm

mastreb wrote:
Evinrude's ad copy claims 80% lower CO emissions at idle than the next best outboard engine available (it's on their front page for Evinrude right now) and its the only outboard currently CARB compliant in california.


This is why I love marketing spin. I just called Kevin at the ARB in CA to ask about the Etec CARB claim. As I suspected marketing at play.

Well, yes. Marketing is always at play. The difference between 11% less emission and 20% less CO emission may not be all that significant. After all, everyone knows better than breathe in the exhaust fumes of any engine, be it 2 stroke, 4 stroke, E-tec or merely a regular car in one's garage. But the sticker on the E-Tec which is backed up by their marketing spin is, it is cleaner--or comparable with a 4 stroke outboard. Which seems to mean, if you're worried that your E-TEC will pollute more than a 4-stroke outboard, don't be. It's not an issue.

Same witrh the noise level. You can, of course, measure it in terms of decibels and conclude it's noisier by 8% (or whatever the case may be). But the E-TEC does use significantly less gas, especially at lower RPMs, does start at the touch of the key, does require less maintenance, does fog itself at the end of the season... and that are determining factors for those people who swear by the E-TEC. And they are all obvious and easy to measure

Is it more reliable? The ETEC owners' website will display mostly cries for help; everybody seems to be extatically happy with the engine, as long as the engine works as it should. When it happens to break down, they rush to complain and seek assistance. Nobody knows for sure how many ETECS work impeccably for every single one which breaks down. But that holds true for any other brand. No outboard is totally foolproof.

Come to think of it, I would not care a bean knowing that 100.000 ETECS work just fine, while mine is the only one that happens to break down.

[seahouse]

What I have determined is that the ratio depends on a lot on speed: If you're trolling around at 4 knots, the engine doesn't seem to use oil much at all

Hey Matt --

Yeah- that's exactly it, less oil is required for ample lubrication at lower rpms.

It's one reason why older premixed outboards fouled plugs when idled for too long - the fuel:oil ratio mixed had to be enough needed for the high rpm levels, which was too rich in oil for the lower rpm requirements, and the plugs, already running cooler, became fouled, and the excess oil blew out the exhaust as smoke. Oil injection (not to be confused with fuel injection, neither of which occur in an E-tec) helped this, but the metering of the oil was still relatively imprecise.

It's why people that have been outboard boating for some time are astonished to find that you can idle all day with an E-tec or similar without having fouling issues. Of course it will be quite unremarkable for the youngsters- they will just take it for granted.

New engines compensate for this not only by fuel volume, but also by adjusting the droplet size of the direct-injected atomized fuel; smaller droplets at lower rpm.

Also note that, contrary to what might seem logical when the fuel and oil are mixed (which we all know doesn't happen in an E-tec either) adding a higher ratio of oil actually leans out the fuel:air ratio, so there is another level of complexity that constantly needs to be chased for efficient combustion.

-B.

[seahouse]

Hmmm. So I found these...

http://www.evinrude.com/en-CA/engines/M ... NES/MFE_55

I think I'll put one of these on the back of my Mac tender "

Said no one. Ever

[mastreb]

Yeah, I saw those last week. Pretty badass, but only available to the government customers, because there's no way a multi-fuel engine that runs JP5, Kerosene, or gasoline would ever be CARB compliant.

I'm surprised they don't make one that runs Deisel. The military has been trying hard to get to just Diesel and jet fuel. They even make these crazy diesel dual-sport motorcycles for them.

[Three Gypsies]

This thread 4 stroke verses 2 stroke reminds me of my motorcycle days . I owned a couple of the Kawasaki 2 stroke triples . These were lightweight street bikes that were the fastest stock motorcycles on the market . They had triple carbs and got 30mpg , and that's no kind of gas mileage for a motorcycle ! FAST ! They wound up so quickly , that you better be hanging on tight when you opened the throttle . They would easily out run other motorcycles twice their size . They probably still hold speed records .

2 stroke out boards are still used on bass boats , for the same reason they are lightweight and wind up fast .
But this is hardly something you need in a Macgregor , unless you plan to motor race your sailboat .

The four strokes are more dependable , get better gas mileage , don't require a gas/oil mix , and will run at low rpm for long periods, and are quiet . More the qualities a Mac owner might be looking for .

We are winding up a 3,000 mile cruise , did two 1,000 mile cruises , before this on our Honda BF50 . When we get home she gets an oil change , gear oil change , and new water pump . The motor has performed flawlessly . Did the whole cruise at 2,000 - 3,000 rpm . This is my maximum gas mileage range .

Her only problem is , she doesn't like non-alcohol gas . She runs better on gas/alcohol . A mechanic said the reason was in Montgomery you can't buy so called marine gas . When I had the carbs computer synched , she had gas/alcohol in her , so she got tuned to that .

[seahouse]

The four strokes are more dependable , get better gas mileage , don't require a gas/oil mix , and will run at low rpm for long periods, and are quiet.

True... twenty+ years ago.

False today.

Follow some of the links above to update your information.

Three Gypsies- please read this in the spirit in which I intended- I'm not trying to be smart a$$ or offend anybody.

Just thought you might want to know this, especially if you are giving advice to others, and you want the information to be accurate.

-B.

ps. If you meant to say "two strokes" in the quote above, disregard this post.

[vkmaynard]

Just out of curiosity I called our local Sea Tow in Morehead City, NC. They said they only run 4S Suzuki and Yamaha motors. They said the marine patrol also run the same. Dealer support?

The guy said they've had better luck with 4S and thought they were "quieter and more fuel efficient".

I never thought to call around before buying. I just followed Billy after seeing first hand how well his motor is holding up.

The Etecs I've see first hand run great and are not that loud. Bill P did have a problem with his Etec 90 running rough and quitting at 3 years. The starter also failed. The dealer fixed the problem and it works now.

So I guess if someone is on the fence call the locals and see what they are using and why.

Victor

[Catigale]

When I repower Catigale I'll probably go for a 15 BF if I can get one from Mercury. Hull speed at 1/2 throttle.

For long range cruising I want a carb motor that I can rebuild or even replace if needed. Anything with electronic control modules, no.

[March]

Wise decision indeed. I struggled with the same issue. But if I avoided electronic ignition in my engine, I might as well forget the GPS and use a sextant, forget the radio and use a bugle, forget the electric cooler and keep the beer in a basket, etc etc.
What the hull? We need to keep up with the inherent disadvantages and risks of Modern Times as well

[Highlander]

When I repower Catigale I'll probably go for a 15 BF if I can get one from Mercury. Hull speed at 1/2 throttle.

For long range cruising I want a carb motor that I can rebuild or even replace if needed. Anything with electronic control modules, no.

Well it doe's not matter really anymore because most marina's dont'n stock any parts anymore including spark plugs & air filters , most only keep eng oil filters & eng oil , lower case oil , water pump impellers stuff that turns over fast in early spring & fall , losts of stuff to decorate ur boat @ lots $$$ & everthing seems to be on back order these days , so basicaly if u r on vacation & have eng problems u r screwed 3-6wks for parts even worse if u r out in the booney's somewhere ur taking the bus if their is one !!
Even if u just want ur eng. scanned so as u can fix it urself because changing this & that because u r pretty sure it's the problem can get very expensive very fast $$$, Most marina's will tell u they can't look @ u for 3wk's unless u r a reg. customer , & as soon as u tell them u just want the eng. scanned so as u can fix it urself they'll tell u come back in 6-8 wks , bottom line they want ur $$$ & could not care less if u r stranded , most marina's r booked for up to 3-6 months because most people do not take care of their boats anymore & so when sh-t happens it's usually big $$$ , Thats why I want to buy a scanner for my eng. but @ 800$ the last time I checked I'm waiting for the price to drop to @ least 300$ bad fuel & lower water level's seems too be keeping them very busy these days !!! U have to wonder why someone would spend $70-150$ or even more on a boat & not maintain it , even worse don't use a depth finder in unknown waters because they can see the reefs & the rocks , but they r not the ones u have to worry about LOL, last yr on L. Ontario I had a guy on a 45ft cigar 350,000$ boat with GPS on @ 2300hrs asking me for directions !!! ? he followed me into Port

J

[bahama bound]

When I repower Catigale I'll probably go for a 15 BF if I can get one from Mercury. Hull speed at 1/2 throttle.

For long range cruising I want a carb motor that I can rebuild or even replace if needed. Anything with electronic control modules, no.

You know I keep going back to the idea of a 25 h.p but I keep toying with putting on a bracket .so it hangs back around 18 inches to free up some space so transom is not so crowded .some have the steps the slide in the side so its like a.mini swim platform .I would not put a big motor on a bracket but I think a 15-40 h.p would be fine .

[BOAT]

Highlander is right - the whole reliability thing is a real drag nowadays no matter if your motor is "old style" or the new fangled KOM-puter jobs - I cant tell you how many times i watch a guy at the launch ramp cranking his outboard over and over and over trying to get it to start. I see new motors, old ones, every shape and size - and because I live in a area that is mostly "blue Collar" and a marina that is used mostly by "blue collar" types, you can bet there is a lot of skipped maintenance on outboards.

I have always thought outboards were unreliable and a hassle, (all of them), based on all I have seen out there in the ocean over the past 45 years. Seems to me that the inboards have always been the most reliable way to go. That is just my observation.

I always try to avoid using the outboard as much as possible because I just don't like them. If I had an inboard I probably would use it more, but the minute I leave the dock all I can think of is turning off the outboard - I always get up a sail and get that thing turned off as fast as I can. Saying that, I must admit I'm just as bad with motors as a lot of power boater folks Highlander is talking about. I was motoring out one day - still in the harbor - motor still going and sails down because i was "playing" with a new gps Chartplotter toy - I accidentally hit the key and killed the motor and could not get it to start. My first inclination was to unfurl the headsail and sail to the dock, which I did. After tying up to the dock and staring at the motor for a while a guy came by and ask me if I took it out of gear after it stalled.

DUH!

I put it in N and started it up.

It just shows in MY mind I will always rely on the sail before I rely on the motor - it's the first place I go to in my mind.

I got the ETEC because it was very SMALL and Mike Inmon told me a pretty good yarn about the new modern KOM-puter 2 strokes, but really, I would not bet my life on ANY outboard 2 OR 4 stroke ESPECIALLY because the dealers are pirates like Highlander said and it's hard to fix them in a pinch. Get whatever you want- you should be fine until it breaks. (Don't fool yourself into thinking nothing breaks).

[yukonbob]

I did the just barley in gear and wouldn't start once when re-fueling and didn't have the jib sheets run so I ran up front and attempted to set up, but when in a hurry those lines love to tie themselves in knots. Got the headsail out and got moving, then I figured it out.
As for inboards being more reliable…maybe an inboard straight 4 diesel, but gas jobs I had to laugh. I can't count how many people I know with inboard gas jobs that sit out the whole season trying to figure out the electronics or why theres gas in the oil or why theres always fuel, water and oil in the bilge. Overtemp sensors going and not starting , strainers clogging and the list goes on.

[dlandersson]

I keep re-visiting the idea of 25 mph also. A Mac 26X has a Mercury 30 mph and it seems to work fine. I'm thinking a 25 might also be enough to get me on plane - and at 25 mph, I would not need a separate policy for my boat.

When I repower Catigale I'll probably go for a 15 BF if I can get one from Mercury. Hull speed at 1/2 throttle.

For long range cruising I want a carb motor that I can rebuild or even replace if needed. Anything with electronic control modules, no.

You know I keep going back to the idea of a 25 h.p but I keep toying with putting on a bracket .so it hangs back around 18 inches to free up some space so transom is not so crowded .some have the steps the slide in the side so its like a.mini swim platform .I would not put a big motor on a bracket but I think a 15-40 h.p would be fine .

[March]

dlandersson wrote » Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:59 am

I keep re-visiting the idea of 25 mph also. A Mac 26X has a Mercury 30 mph and it seems to work fine. I'm thinking a 25 might also be enough to get me on plane - and at 25 mph, I would not need a separate policy for my boat.

Yup, 25 mph will put you on a plane pretty fast.