outboards

[no go]

i know this topic has been discussed before, but with new outboard tech upon us i thought we should discuss the new motors.

i currently have a 50 v tech thinking to upgrade, Yamaha new 70 is only 245 lbs and i belief the90 is not much more same case. what are your thoughts and does anyone have the new Yamaha 70

[mastreb]

You've really got to consider the Evinrude ETEC-60, 75, and 90. Fantastic motors in every respect, smaller and lighter than any same hp four stroke, much easier to pull start from dead (even disconnected battery) than any 4-stroke, cleaner emissions, and exceptionally efficient at low speeds. By my fuel calculation, they produce as much 12v DC charging power (but not AC) as an efficient generator at idle for the same fuel (0.1 gph).

[no go]

the new Yamaha 70 hp or is 240ish pounds. the etet is 320 70hp this is why I was leaning for Yamaha also the tee is loud in the 2 stroke i thought the Yamaha would be lighter and quiet with mostly same performance


thoughts

[mastreb]

the 70 is the least compelling model--actual output is about 82hp and its the exact same motor as the 90 with a different EMM. So look at either the 60 or the 90.

Yes, the ETECs are slightly louder than most 4-strokes, but not so different that I would say its important. 300 hours without service, and the service is nothing more than a plug change and inspection. Very reliable motors.

[kadet]

the 70 is the least compelling model--actual output is about 82hp and its the exact same motor as the 90 with a different EMM. So look at either the 60 or the 90.

Yes, the ETECs are slightly louder than most 4-strokes, but not so different that I would say its important. 300 hours without service, and the service is nothing more than a plug change and inspection. Very reliable motors.

I've actually always thought the opposite that the 75 was better value than the 90 as they are the same motor with a different tune that the extra $1000s for the 90 is not worth it and the 75 is better bang per buck and not being flogged to get the last couple of horses out of it

Yamaha F70A is only 996cc for 121kg.

Etec 75/90 1295cc for 141kg.

The Yamaha achieves it's power by a complex valve train with many many moving parts. Requires frequent servicing and oil changes is a 4 stroke and only produces power on every other stroke and by all reports is a good motor.

The Etec is a 2 stroke with minimal moving parts but with a highly complex electronic fuel injection system. Requires infrequent servicing is oil injected and produces power on every stroke and by all reports is a good motor.

I don't think you can go wrong with any modern outboard as the technology has advanced leaps and bounds over the last decade.

[vkmaynard]

Four strokes due not require frequent service. They also do not require frequent oil changes if you use synthetic.

As far as reliability goes, how many two strokes do you find in cars today? How many times has your car motor mechanically failed? Typically a failure is caused by sensors which are present on both types of motors.

Check out what motors Sea Tow and marine patrol boats use. Over here it is four stroke motors. Must be reliable and fuel efficient.

The weight argument is pointless. The Suzuki 90 weighs 20 lbs more than the Etec. That is the difference of about 3 gal of gas. Various equipment and passengers weigh far more than the difference.

However that is an amazingly small weight on the Yamaha.

Two strokes are louder than four strokes and are less fuel efficient but not by a lot. If they were more fuel efficient they would be the #1 motor choice in a car. Porting and electronics do not have same level of control over burn efficency as valves.

The best feature of a two stoke on a Mac is the much smaller cowling size. Really helps improve the maneuverability around the motor on the M.

75 hp is a good amount of power. We hardly push our 90 unless wakeboarding.

Sometimes motor choices are "what ever floats your boat".

Victor

[kadet]

As I said I don't think you can go wrong with any modern outboard these days But there are often a lot misconceptions about 2 strokes out there and some often quoted inapplicable arguments against them.

Four strokes due not require frequent service. They also do not require frequent oil changes if you use synthetic.

As far as reliability goes, how many two strokes do you find in cars today?

From the F70A owners manual first service 20hour/3months then every 100hrs/12months every service includes oil and filter changes.
From my ETECs owners manual first service 300hours/3 years then very 300hours/3 years.

Yes you can argue the Yamaha does not need such frequent servicing and you can save $$$ doing it yourself and that the ETEC requires more but this is the recommended servicing schedules published by the respective manufacturers.

Also a car's four stroke is a completely different beastie to an outboard which are small displacement high output engines more akin to motorcycles or portable engines like generators, water pumps or lawn mowers etc.. 2 strokes have dominated this area for decades the only reason 4 strokes even got a look in was pollution control which was difficult on a 2 stroke and when the environmental laws started to bite it was easier to convert to 4 stroke than to meet the regs and clean up the 2 stroke. Some manufactures did however which is why many of the outboard manufactures are also motorcycle engine manufactures or other portable engine manufactures. Saidly the first attempt by Evinrude the fitch was a marketing disaster and a failure that sent them broke.

2 strokes are simple extremely reliable and make great small capacity engines. (I don't class an ETEC here due to the electronics ) But my trusting 3.6HP Yamaha knock off will take abuse and keep on ticking, even if a bit smokey.

[beene]

I have been riding motorcycles for almost 40 years

1 of them was a 2 stroke, loud, pain in the butt to use due fuel oil mixing, and not good on gas

Switched to a 4 stroke enduro waaaaaay back, better all around.

Thing is still running strong

How many street motorcycles are 2 stroke vs 4 stroke today?

Just a guess based on my experience riding, what I see, what my friends ride, basically every big group event I have ever been on...

All were 4 stroke

.02

[yukonbob]

I still see a handful of dirt bikes street modified (prob not many others see this anymore in the cities) as for 2 strokes, they do still offer more power in a lighter package, and with oil injection, mixing is a thing of the past; but they are going extinct. The way regulations are tightening down, it'll be five years in jail for turning one over soon.

[BOAT]

I was dead set on a 4 stroke only - even the thought of a 2 stroke made me laugh when I was shopping for a boat. I rode a 1971 shovel head Sportster for many years back in the olden days and even then a dirt bike was the only thing that ever had a 2 stroke motor. On the boats we sailed in the early 80's we all changed to Honda's because of the noise and reliability factors. I was indeed prejudiced against the 2 stroke engine.

After a LOT of discussion and enlightenment from Mike Inmon, (who was more than willing to sell me a more expensive 4 stroke engine - it was already in the deal), I spent some time sitting on the boat at Rogers dock playing with the helm. "Man!", I thought, "That engine is really really small!" I was able to walk right on and off the dock into the transom of the boat with the helm seat up - the motor was so small.

"I sure like that low profile on that motor." I said to Mike. He said "Your not gonna get that with a four stroke!" So I took a chance and went with the ETEC60. I have been really pleased.

I don't know why they put so much work into perfecting the 2 stroke, but someone really did a good job doing it. It's sure not the 2 stroke that I remember from years ago! I think you would be good with either - you really can't go wrong with these new modern motors in my opinion.

[trdprotruck]

Could someone post a link to the specs of these new Yamaha outboards? The Yamaha's dry weight isn't matching the weight being listed here.

Thanks

[vkmaynard]

Who takes their car in for "service" every 100 hrs? The dealers would love that.

Billy has never "serviced" his 2001 Suzuki 140 since new. Our motor is three seasons old with only the original break-in oil change. Our motor has about 200 hours total. The oil looks clear on the dipstick. It will be changed this next season.

I've been running synthetic oil in everything for 25 years. Time between oil changes is 10,00 miles for us. When I dissembled my 1988 Mustang GT (147,000 miles) for some mods there where still hone marks in the cylinders. Our 1994 van we purchased new has 271,000 miles on the original engine. The small oil burn is guaranteed coming from the valve seals. 10,000 miles is a lot of time between changes, not 100 hours. Most people don't flog their outboards unless they have a 50 are trying to make time.

I'm not anti-two stoke. I think they are great. I would not be oppose to owning an Etec specifically if I had an M.

My only push back is with the Vudu statements about more moving parts vs reliability. About 99% of the motor problems I've witnessed personally are with carburetors malfunctioning. Both type of older motors have carburetors.

Victor

[BOAT]

My Sprinter Van uses that synthetic oil and every time I go to the dealer for service all they do is a free checkup and rotate tires. I'm at 80 thousand miles now on the Sprinter and it always goes to the dealer like clockwork once a year for yearly inspection and they have only changed the oil three times in all these years. That fake oil stuff is great! I have oil samples sent in yearly to the lab and they always say the oil is good.

I also highly recommend the fake oil that Victor talked about - I even got that special XD100 fake oil for the little ETEC60 on 'boat'. The fake oil stuff is great! (Did I mention the fake oil is great?)

[Wayne nicol]

here's a quick question with regards to the e tecs, do any of you still run on the 30 to 1 mix- or all moved to the 100 mix. is that 100 truly sufficient!!??
- cos that is minimal oil usage!!
i do realise its not just a simple change over- and requires a systems tech to do the change over
thanks

[kadet]

here's a quick question with regards to the e tecs, do any of you still run on the 30 to 1 mix- or all moved to the 100 mix. is that 100 truly sufficient!!??
- cos that is minimal oil usage!!
i do realise its not just a simple change over- and requires a systems tech to do the change over
thanks

There is no "mix" forget everything you think you know about old 2 strokes with ETECs. The ETEC has two settings regular oil which uses about 50% less than tradition 2 strokes and XD-100 special synthetic oil which uses about 75% less. The oil injection is computer controlled and infinitely variable this is due in part to a pin point oiling system which only applies oil to the necessary components, unlike the original two stroke motors which mixed the oil with the fuel in a pre-defined ratio. And I run it on the XD-100 setting. Running around WOT I use about 500ml oil per 20l of fuel. At hull speed it almost seems to use none just a few mls to top off the oil tank at the end of the day.