Re-powering a MacM from 70 HP up

[vkmaynard]

Here is some of the fun stuff you can do with a 90+ hp motor

Mess'n with the locals by Jim King http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSmEG9DiwVo

The Mac actually feels and handles like a real power boat with great authority. It carves beautifully, watch Jim’s video above.

If you are considering a new motor or replacement motor and are thinking 90+ is too much, try a test drive. Erik did and replaced his 50 two weeks later. Ask Erik if would like to put a 50 on the back of his boat now

We live near Apex NC. Contact me is you want to test drive 10 min from our house.

Consider a 100+ for an M, 90 is plenty for an X.

Next is a new set of 90 hp sails.

Victor
90+ Club Mac

[Tomfoolery]

What's the typical installed price of the Suzuki DF90A?

Or the Evinrude Etec 90, for that matter?

My Honda BF50 has been fine for me so far, even pulling my son on a wakeboard, but you know how it is - if 50 hp is good, 90 hp must be better.

[vkmaynard]

What's the typical installed price of the Suzuki DF90A?

Or the Evinrude Etec 90, for that matter?

My Honda BF50 has been fine for me so far, even pulling my son on a wakeboard, but you know how it is - if 50 hp is good, 90 hp must be better.

We marginally pulled our kids and some of their lite friends (15.5 MPH) wakeboarding for several years until they were 15+. Our kids only weighed in at 120-130. Our oldest is now 20 and probably weighs 135 lbs. It finally became unfun one summer and we skipped wakeboarding which drastically reduce our boat usage. So the next year (2010) we swapped out the motor.

Chatlee Marine in Sanford NC had the lowest price by nearly $2K. We spent $8,100 on the motor, cables, harnes, control, prop and tax. We pre-sold our Honda 50 to a freind with a Mac 26X for $3K. We swapped out his Tahtsu 50 motor at our house. He in turn sold his Tahtsu for $1500. Trikle down motor economy.

We did our own install. Super easy. Just need an engine hoist (can be rented). The most difficult task was engineering the new control install to maximize the clearance between the wheel and the throttle. I did not want to use the side mount install which I considered unsafe due to getting my hand stuck between the wheel and throttle while docking.

Victor

[Seapup]

Chatlee Marine in Sanford NC had the lowest price by nearly $2K. We spent $7,800 on the motor, cables, harnes, control, prop. We pre-sold our Honda 50 to a freind with a Mac 26X for $3K. We swapped out his Tahtsu 50 motor at our house. He in turn sold his Tahtsu for $1500. Trikle down motor economy.

We did our own install. Super easy. Just need an engine hoist (can be rented).

I plan on doing basically the same. As soon as I pull the boat from our slip this fall I am going to put our 2006 bf50 on CL and hope to sell it by spring. I am going to see if I can find a clean used motor by spring, but if not Eds marine which is local for me sells the Honda 90 for $7450. I asked them about the DF90 and they have to order it and want $8700. For install I was told $600, but would will do it myself. Merc 90s there are around 7k and 115s are $7600, but I think I will stay honda if I go new.

[vkmaynard]

Do you sail out of VA Beach? My wife's family has a place there and we've trailered there before.

Will the Honda require new harness or controls?

We went with the Suzuki because a) Billy has had zero problems with his Suzuki 140 since 2001; b) The Suzuki is 18 lbs lighter (not much diff); c) Cost was significanlty less.

We checked Ed's in 2010 and they were at least $1000 more than our local Chatlee dealer. If Ed's was less cost I would have driven 3.5 hours each way.

Just for grins I called Ed's today. They won't sell a crate motor you can install and don't have individual Suzuki 90 motors in stock. They said Suzuki has become very expensive, more so than Honda. Curious, I called Chatlee here; their price for an in stock 2012 Suzuki DF90 out the door is $6,800 - $250 rebate + 8% tax = $7,074. Add about $1000 for prop, harness, cables, engine management tac, control. Same $8,100 total with tax that we paid in 2010. The deal in 2010 for us was a no cost 6 year extended warranty.

Looks like Ed's is $1900 more. Did that include tax?

Can't wait to hear your 90 report soon!

Victor

[DaveB]

Victor,
What size wedges did you use on your 90BF to get the Bow down?
Dave

Do you sail out of VA Beach? My wife's family has a place there and we've trailered there before.

Will the Honda require new harness or controls?

We went with the Suzuki because a) Billy has had zero problems with his Suzuki 140 since 2001; b) The Suzuki is 18 lbs lighter (not much diff); c) Cost was significanlty less.

We checked Ed's in 2010 and they were at least $1000 more than our local Chatlee dealer. If Ed's was less cost I would have driven 3.5 hours each way.

Just for grins I called Ed's today. They won't sell a crate motor you can install and don't have individual Suzuki 90 motors in stock. They said Suzuki has become very expensive, more so than Honda. Curious, I called Chatlee here; their price for an in stock 2012 Suzuki DF90 out the door is $6,800 - $250 rebate + 8% tax = $7,074. Add about $1000 for prop, harness, cables, engine management tac, control. Same $8,100 total with tax that we paid in 2010. The deal in 2010 for us was a no cost 6 year extended warranty.

Looks like Ed's is $1900 more. Did that include tax?

Can't wait to hear your 90 report soon!

Victor

[vkmaynard]

Nothing special.

Something like this http://www.google.com/products/catalog? ... DEQ8wIwAQ#

[Seapup]

Do you sail out of VA Beach? My wife's family has a place there and we've trailered there before.

Yeah, we live right at the oceanfront and have used Rudee a few times last spring, but quickly got tired of raising the mast after the bridge. We kept it a long bay point marina for a few months then moved to Willoughby this fall to be near some better sailing waters.

Will the Honda require new harness or controls?

Not sure, Honda lists the same controls for all motors from the BF 25-225 on their site. That would be my primary reason for staying with a honda. http://marine.honda.com/products/access ... side-mount

Just for grins I called Ed's today. They won't sell a crate motor you can install and don't have individual Suzuki 90 motors in stock. They said Suzuki has become very expensive, more so than Honda. Curious, I called Chatlee here; their price for an in stock 2012 Suzuki DF90 out the door is $6,800 - $250 rebate + 8% tax = $7,074. Add about $1000 for prop, harness, cables, engine management tac, control. Same $8,100 total with tax that we paid in 2010. The deal in 2010 for us was a no cost 6 year extended warranty.

Looks like Ed's is $1900 more. Did that include tax?

Can't wait to hear your 90 report soon!

Victor

I emailed eds about prices, They said suzuki was $8700 and would have to order, honda was $7450 in stock, I did not ask if you can just grab and go. I have read a lot of bad reviews about them, but their honda prices seem decent. If the honda is a straight swap that would save some time/money, but I am not going to throw away money on an install I can do myself. If it comes to buying new the $6800 form your dealer sounds really reasonable.

My plan for now as I mentioned is use the boat as much as possible while it is in the water this fall, then once its out advertise the 50 and start looking for a solid used motor. If nothing comes up worthwhile than get new in the spring.I have seen a couple decent 4 stroke 90-115s go this summer in the 3.5-4k range. There is a df115 right now for $3500. http://norfolk.craigslist.org/boa/2649460243.html

[DaveB]

Thanks for the info, what I ment to say is. The Wedges I take it as a way to increase the distance of the top bolts to engine, there fore alowing the motor to have a more bow down . This is caused by the upper shim being thicker than the lower part.
If I am correct, what was the upper shim thickness ?
In simple form, the shims will allow the motor to go forward to allow transum degree.This in return will lower Bow.
I have seen all the vidios on Utube with the MacX and 90 hp BF and all ride high bow.
I am thinking that I need a thicker shim to get the bow down. I do have 2 batteries at vberth.
I always have a bimini up and height is 5 ft. trying to see over the bow is the major concern.

Dave

Nothing special.

Something like this http://www.google.com/products/catalog? ... DEQ8wIwAQ#

[vkmaynard]

So Dave does this mean you are considering a near term purchase

The wedges work like you stated. You really don't need/want to bury the bow. The idea is to get the bow out of the water to reduce drag. When the boat "planes out" for real, around 21+mph, the bow wake moves back enough where the forward CG of the boat cause the bow to drop slightly like a teeter-totter. You can feel the acceleration at that point with no additional throttle, like surfing down a wave. The bow may look high on the X but that is the way most boats look like on plane. The M does not lift out of the water as much due the hull shape, hence the slightly lower top speeds with the same horsepower (but faster under sail, no doubt).

Notice this boat on plane looks like the Macs on plane with the bow wake maybe 60% back.






I would absolutely recommend the wedges. We run our motor all the way under the boat then lift up an extremely small amount. That seems to be the sweat spot where the engine works less. Mounting the engine correctly is also important. Our cavitation plate is even with the bottom of the hull. The "hooks" on the engine mount do not touch the transom. That is the way these motors are designed for install. This reduces drag by minimizing the amount of lower unit parasitic drag. Some say the cavitation plate can be 1+” above the hull bottom; however we did not have that luxury with the existing holes. Based on the way the motor runs and watching the water flow, I would not raise it anymore. See the YouTube video.

So when is the big day??

Victor

[davidbourne]

This 90+ HP, how to mount it, wedges, and even where to buy (since I'm in NC) it is exactly what I have been wondering about.

I hope to buy an X, but maybe still an M. I still need to SEE them both, though! It's all been an Internet dream up to this point.

[vkmaynard]

Where do ypu live in NC?

[Octaman]

I have to agree on all points with Victor.

The wedge is a must. I can definitely say so after going with the Suzuki 100hp/1.950cc and installing a wedge.
I didn’t have a wedge with the previous Suzuki 70hp/1.300cc and in hindsight I believe I should have done so.

Look at it this way – if you don’t have the wedge you cannot tilt the engine further back if you need to. If you do have the wedge you can always tilt a little forward if you feel the angle is too far back.

I would add the following observation:

When powering high speed – without ballast – the bow does have a tendency to nose up so the motor is tilted all the way down. You can always shift loose items belowdecks to the v-berth forward if you want to bring the nose down a little further. This is what I do. With the Suzuki 100 the more I push the throttle, the faster I go once on a plane, the faster I go the bow tends to rise less.

The admiral and our daughter actually enjoy lying on the two settees (M 2004 model) on either side when high speed powering and not being in the cockpit, so this brings their weight not only more forward but further down well. When they go belowdecks, you immediately feel/see how the boat’s behavior changes (for the better).

Permanent weight in the bow is no good because, when you go into sailing mode – ballast full – The boat becomes a little bow heavy and then you need to shift weight aft to the double berth under the cockpit. This is where the extra weight of my big engine actually becomes a positive feature.

Victor,
having solved all the powering issues of our Mac M, I, too, am now focused on upgrading the stock sails in the near future.

Happy power sailing,

Octaman

[DaveB]

Victor,
I have been looking at repowering my X for a year and after all the postings and utube trials I am at the Suzukie 90. I just want to be sure I install it right. My deck that wraps the transem was cut out to allow the motor flush to transem. the cavitation plate was almost even with the hull on my BF50 honda and cavitated if anyone over 125 lbs went to the bow going astearn. the U on the motor was 2 inches above the transem and I just lowered it to 1 inch above it but haven't taken the boat out.
I Have 25 dealers for Suzukie within 50 miles but only 2 that repower.
My Next step is getting quotes and also if I can install the motor.
I got all your other posts and was very helpful on my decision to go forward for the motor.
Resale of boat adding another $9,000 for engine -$1500 for old engine = 7500 out of pocket that I will never get back but it will help sell boat faster.
I wish I was in Sanford, NC to get the Chatlee dealer to sell me one.
Iam ready to get one now.
DAVE

So Dave does this mean you are considering a near term purchase

The wedges work like you stated. You really don't need/want to bury the bow. The idea is to get the bow out of the water to reduce drag. When the boat "planes out" for real, around 21+mph, the bow wake moves back enough where the forward CG of the boat cause the bow to drop slightly like a teeter-totter. You can feel the acceleration at that point with no additional throttle, like surfing down a wave. The bow may look high on the X but that is the way most boats look like on plane. The M does not lift out of the water as much due the hull shape, hence the slightly lower top speeds with the same horsepower (but faster under sail, no doubt).

Notice this boat on plane looks like the Macs on plane with the bow wake maybe 60% back.






I would absolutely recommend the wedges. We run our motor all the way under the boat then lift up an extremely small amount. That seems to be the sweat spot where the engine works less. Mounting the engine correctly is also important. Our cavitation plate is even with the bottom of the hull. The "hooks" on the engine mount do not touch the transom. That is the way these motors are designed for install. This reduces drag by minimizing the amount of lower unit parasitic drag. Some say the cavitation plate can be 1+” above the hull bottom; however we did not have that luxury with the existing holes. Based on the way the motor runs and watching the water flow, I would not raise it anymore. See the YouTube video.

So when is the big day??

Victor

[DaveB]

Octaman,
I may have enough weight forward as my two group 27 batteries are at the head of Vberth and tools, spare anchor and other things are stored at vberth.
The bow water line is down 2-3 inches when ballest is full and no one aboard compared to the stearn.
Dave

I have to agree on all points with Victor.

The wedge is a must. I can definitely say so after going with the Suzuki 100hp/1.950cc and installing a wedge.
I didn’t have a wedge with the previous Suzuki 70hp/1.300cc and in hindsight I believe I should have done so.

Look at it this way – if you don’t have the wedge you cannot tilt the engine further back if you need to. If you do have the wedge you can always tilt a little forward if you feel the angle is too far back.

I would add the following observation:

When powering high speed – without ballast – the bow does have a tendency to nose up so the motor is tilted all the way down. You can always shift loose items belowdecks to the v-berth forward if you want to bring the nose down a little further. This is what I do. With the Suzuki 100 the more I push the throttle, the faster I go once on a plane, the faster I go the bow tends to rise less.

The admiral and our daughter actually enjoy lying on the two settees (M 2004 model) on either side when high speed powering and not being in the cockpit, so this brings their weight not only more forward but further down well. When they go belowdecks, you immediately feel/see how the boat’s behavior changes (for the better).

Permanent weight in the bow is no good because, when you go into sailing mode – ballast full – The boat becomes a little bow heavy and then you need to shift weight aft to the double berth under the cockpit. This is where the extra weight of my big engine actually becomes a positive feature.

Victor,
having solved all the powering issues of our Mac M, I, too, am now focused on upgrading the stock sails in the near future.

Happy power sailing,

Octaman