Solar Panel

[Sumner]

I also have a Honda 1000 generator on board, to supplement the panel. The Honda puts out about 8 amps at 12v (96watts). It is indeed quiet, but as noted does produce vibration if placed on deck. I solved the vibration problem by suspending it on bungees... they go down from the bow pulpit, through the generator's carrying handle, and back up the the pulpit... works a treat. The generator stores nicely under the cockpit's aft seat.

Thanks that gives me an idea. I was thinking rubber mounts right under the Honda, but if that doesn't work or in addition to that maybe rubber mounts for the struts that mount the platform for the Honda and alternator.



Your solution to supplementing the panel with the 8 amp output of the Honda is a good example of how different our needs can be. I use a CPAP machine at night and it uses 6 amps for 6 to 7 hours that I use it. That is about 39-40 amp hours. It would take running the Honda 1000 about 5 hours to replenish that in my case, but obviously for your needs you are just fine. If I was using the Honda 1000 I would run a 12 volt charger off of the 110 volt side, but there again you don't have to.

My thought was we really don't need 110 for anything on the boat as everything runs off 12 volts. Well the exception to that has been the laptops, but that is going to change with a 'true' 12 volt computer.......................



http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner ... Index.html

I'm looking forward to putting it together, but will have to wait a couple months as we need to buy a new outboard right now.

c ya and thanks for the mounting ideas,

Sum

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[kmclemore]

Sum, the rubber mounts underneath may help - indeed, I used a thick rubber pad myself under the Honda for a time - but I found that suspending it was far superior in terms of reducing vibration, as the oscillations don't transfer to the hull at all.

[flynfol]

Hi Guys,

Just to clarify.....I don't plan on using the 12volt output from the generator(Honda EU1000). I have an Iota charger/converter (rated at 30 amps...they come bigger)hard wired in my boat. It is powered by shore power AC. It outputs between 13.4 (float) and 14.0 volts DC to charge the battery or power the DC side of my boat. I wired a relay that can use shore power OR a dedicated plug when parked near AC on its trailer. I am plugging my shore power cord into the 120VAC output to power the AC buss (charger and AC outlets on the boat). You need to look at the charge curve of different charge sources to really see how they charge. This charger uses an Algorithym to hold the charge at a high acceptance rate. (thus very quick and efficient) 30amps x 14.0 Volts is 420 watts. Okay say it loads the generator at 500 watts with losses. Still well within the 1000 watt capability. Quick, Quiet charging. I would love to use solar, but in my situation it just won't work. Using one at anchor all day facing south is a different story. My kids crawling all over the boat would only make things worse

Warm weather sunny skies and fairwinds,

John


I'm getting cabin(sailing) fever

[Highlander]

1000 generator inverter is the only way to go in my oppinion with a smart dual battery charger you can now run all your 110volt appl, 12vlt excess, & your laptop all at the same time with no worries

The longest I have had mine running none stop is 9hrs & when I checked the gas level I think it was down 1/2 cup
http://www.macgregorsailors.com/forum/v ... tor#p74998

J

[Irafatsar]

http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/prod ... =EU1000IAN Here is the one I have been looking at. I could not justify the expense and singular use for a solar panel on the boat and with our dual use for the generator I have a better chance of the wife approving the funds. Now tell me more about the dual battery charger. more research

[Highlander]

Here you are

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/st ... 299088/377%

J

[flynfol]

Honda EU1000.....thats the one. I couldn't believe how quiet it was. Suspending it instead of allowing it to resonate is a great idea.
Here is what I have.......DLS30 with built in IQ.

http://www.iotaengineering.com/12vdc.htm

I use a battery switch to charge my batteries separately. Works great.

John

[Irafatsar]

we had a honda 650 for years when we had the motor home, very quiet great on gas. we also used it during the fires when all the power lines and everything around us burnt. That generator would run 8 hour per fill up. I gave it to my brother, still cant figure that one out, any way the weight on the 650 was like 50=lbs the eu-1000 only weighs 28 lbs.

[Sumner]

OK for the sake of discussion I'll be on the 12 volt side of things and ask you guys some questions .

Why do you want 110 on board? What benefits are there to running a 110 generator?

Right now we run our laptops with a 12 volt dc converter to 20 volt DC from Lind that is more efficient than running a 110 generator to power up the laptop. All that you have to do is plug it into a 12 volt cigarette socket, which the S has stock and plug the other end into the laptop.

I can't hardly think of an appliance that won't run directly off 12 volts. I carry a cordless drill and do carry an inverter to charge those batteries, but so far have never had to do that on the water.

Where do you store these generators? Do you have to get them out to run your laptop and other items?

You have a battery bank, why not just use that to power everything?

Like I've said before what one guy's needs are aren't what the next guy needs, so don't take this personal. I'm just wondering what I'm missing?

Thanks,

Sum

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[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

I also see no reason for 110v on board. My laptop power supplies (Dell and HP) all have 12v car adapters that power them without any problem. If I do need a little bit of 110v for a wall wart I use my inverter (150w) for these low power loads. I think it is much more efficient to make 12v power for charging a 12v system. These day's you can get almost every appliance under the sun in a 12v version.

Also in my case, a Honda generator / high output charger combo can't really produce the power I need. 8 amps is out of the question, even a 30-40 amp charger won't cut it. My 'special' application needs 50-80 amps of 12v power for hours on end. It's much easier to produce this with a small 12v generator. At times I may want to charge my 450 amp hour battery bank so the variable amp output up to a max of 80 amps will be handy for this as well.

I really like the idea of suspending the generator for noise isolation. I'm going to have to work on that idea, the bow won't work in my case but there is a lot of space on a X transom if a particularly large object in the middle is removed.

[Highlander]

Ok
First off any good 12vlt appl. I've seen cost a fortune , any good 12vlt inverters cost another fortune they are also suspect to overheating & causing elect. fires they are also limited to your boat installation "boat specific" fixed object attatched to your boat !!! . the inverter generator can be used any where boat /house/ backyard/ camping / parties / outside venues,
Same reason I optied for a 800amp booster pac rather than an 3rd battery for the boat , fixed , booster pac I can use inside the boat in emg. , boost start my O/B , run 12vt appl. , any where run my 12volt elect. motor in my dinghy, can also use to boost any cars / trucks or run 12vt appl. during the off season or winter, portability & its multi use concept gives you far bigger bang for your $$$

just my oppinion but each to their own

J

[flynfol]

Hi Guys,

Not trying to start a controversial discussion.... I think we all are powering our boats from 12 volt batteries. We are just talking about alternative means of charging our batteries that suit our individual needs. No doubt solar would fit into our ability to remain quiet.(love that idea) Again, I would love to do that because I know that technology works. (been using it for some time myself with great success) Finding room for those "solar sails" is just something I can't do on a 25 foot sailboat. Counting on 8 "good" hours of sun a day is another here in the midwest.

Alternator technology is limited in output by the gauge size wire in the stator windings. Yes, those gizmos in your car produce AC current which is then rectified into approximately 14.0 volts DC. To sidestep that limitation, you increase the voltage to say 120vac. Use a separate rectifier (converter/charger) and charge your batteries. You wouldn't need too run it very long if you have the properly sized charger. Batteries will charge rather quickly to about 80% capacity. The last 20% takes much longer. I am just trying to remain autonomous while out cruising. Using my outboard alternator is last ditch emergency due to its limited output.

Until someone like Honda makes an ultra quiet high amp (more than 30 amps) 12 vdc generator, I'm stuck with using what is available. Since that unit governs its engine speed predicated on load, it remains the quietest. I already have an onboard converter/charger, so why not use it. The inverter style generators don't need to run at some product of 60 ( 1800, 3600rpm ) to produce 60 cycle current. They adjust speed to the load of the inverter. Thats what makes them so quiet. The higher the rpm, the noiser it is......think lawnmower here. (Last thing I want to think about while sailing is cutting the grass ).

If you have 120vac available while charging your batteries, why not put it to use charging/powering something else while it runs.

Just a note, be careful charging your screwgun's battery charger with cheap modified sine wave inverters.......you can fry them. (ask me how I know )

That little Honda will drop right in the lazzeret, and at 28 pounds will be very managable.

In regards to fire, how many home computers are on the news because they burst into flames. They use the same technology in their power supply.

Faiwinds, sunny skies, spring is coming, sailing withdrawal in full swing,

John

[keith]

I fitted two 80watt panels on rear of my mac and they seem to be working out ok.
Enough power to run fridge and accessories and charge batteries

[flynfol]

...a quick addition on lead acid battery technology....if you have a 480 amp/hr battery bank, to achieve some semblance of life span from them, you should not discharge below 50% dod. At "50-80 amps for hours", it won't take long to draw them down. Lets take 80 amps for instance. 50% dod would mean you have you have 240 amp/hrs to work with. At 80 amps in a perfect world without taking puekert effect into it ,leaves you with drained batteries in 3 hours.

Battery manufacturers rate deep cycle batteries at a constant 20 amp discharge to arrive at amp/hr rating. Increase your load and you WILL NOT get that same rating(peukert effect).

To get 80 amps out of a battery, you must put in 100 amps of charge......lead acid batteries are not very efficient, but they are cheap compared to alternatives.

So, if you are using that kind of battery power, your best alternative is an AC generator with a large converter charger. A 1000 watt generator can produce 70 amps of dc thru a converter/charger, but doesn't leave much margin for longevity. You might need to increase generator size. A 480 amp/hr battery bank can easiler accept that charge rate without damage.

My 660 amp/hr battery bank at my cabin accepts 120 amps from the charger initially when our "plan B" generator is fired up(due to clouds after a couple days) we normally charge with 500 watts of solar aimed right at the sun which averages about 28 amps in bright sun. I was disappointed with the advertised panel rating and real world output numbers. A typical 12 volt solar 80 watt panel with 36 cells has an open circuit voltage of 21 volts. A working voltage of 17 volts (remember voltage has to be higher than the battery to charge) and a realistic output when hot of about 60 watts.

If this stuff intrigues you as much as me, read more about it here:

http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm

going up to 40 degrees and sunny today.....yeehaw

[flynfol]

Wow Keith.....now that is a nice install. Fold up panels....I love it. Are those 80 watt panels? approximately 2' by 4'? That is quite a stern rail set up, how tall is that? Can you still use your ladder?