Blue Water Sailing??

[jeffh1971]

I am considering purchasing a Mac and was wondering how most of you would rate the Mac's bluewater capabilities. How well does the Mac handle rough seas? What are some things that you would need to be aware of when making long passages across open water? My main reason for asking is that I want a boat that would be be functional for crossing the gulf stream and cruising the bahamas and the caribbean. I realize from reading this forum that it has and can be done, but in general, would like to have the opinion of others regarding the Mac's advantages and disadvantages when making open water crossings. Thanks in advance for your help.

[Landlocked]

Jeff,

Check this web site out. www.conchcruisers.net

It is a Forum of a group of trailable sailers who make various trips together. Some include crossing the Gulfstream.

[Richard Lisch]

I am sailing since 27 years in the Caribbean, 2 of them on a 2004 M and I can definitely tell you that the Macs are no blue water boats.
Living down here (PR) allows me to go sailing when conditions are acceptable for the Mac (2' to 4' seas and up 10 to 15knt winds). I moved my boat over to a marina in the USVI last Thanksgiving and sailed the BVIs for almost two month (on and off on weekends).

As long as you have enough time to make your moves without pressure, it can be done. But then, for what you pay for a Mac you can buy a nice used blue water capable 30' plus boat. Which I would recommend for what you are looking trying to do.

BTW, I also have a Cal 27 which I normaly use for longer sailing trips. Our VI trip with the Mac was to see if it can be done in a more or less comfortable way. We enjoyed it to move from one island to another using the engine and not loosing much time doing so. But as almost each weekend friends came along, the boat was to cramped. So next VI trip will be done in the Cal again (Or perhaps in the Hans Christian 33T I am searching)

[aya16]

Is the Mac a blue water boat? I have had the Mac out in some nasty stuff,
Never felt un safe but was real uncomfortable. I think even so called blue water boats would be uncomfortable. Macs are every where all over the world and are used in all kinds of stuff. What makes me think that its fine
for most anything you would use a bigger boat is the fact that we dont hear or read about any major or minor mishaps. Just one that I recall.
so my vote is, If you are out sailing and the weather turns on you(should have checked before you went out) my guess that the Mac will bring you home, wet and uncomfortable but still home.
Last time I went out with a group of Macs we headed out and the swell, No kidding, hit the Mac that looked like it went 3/4/s the way up the mast when I turned the corner out of the break wall. I mean this thing was a monster. Never in my life have I seen a wave that big from a boat This swell was coming up and over twenty feet of water and looked ready to break soon. About 5 of us Macs went into that and not one sunk. The Mac just rolled right over the thing like it was no big deal. We made it past the large swells and decided to stay out and sail. A few of us got a little green and cut the trip short but no one felt like the Mac couldnt handle it.
Ricks wife Molly was ready to sell their boat and Karen was going to puke on me if I didnt turn around and go in but it was a fun day. But it was also a learning day as next time Molly gets into half that it wont even make her blink. Rick didnt we have the dogs then too? Hey we got a guy here thats ready to take his boat to the big Island and thats as blue as you can get....

[Randy Smith]

I love my Mac and would be the first to justify my owning it....outside of protected waters, example, the Eastern Inner Water Ways, and Pugent Sound, San Francisco, and others......I WOULD OWN A DIFFERENT BOAT(and that is saying a lot as I can't imagine owning anything else).
Our boat is awesome for its designed use...in my opinion, while the Mac would take it and survive most cases, it does not sound like the boat for you.....you need a keeled boat with some heavy sea capability....again, just one opinion...... Randy

[Night Sailor]

The Macs could go anywhere if you can wait for seas and winds that are within their safe and comfortable range. Comfort is a subjective thing, but it becomes more and more important as the distance sailed increases. Poor judgment due to crew fatigue is is one of the leading causes of mishaps at sea, not boats breaking. Because most of us are limited on our cruise time, we can't wait forever for a weather window, so either a more capable boat is required or a shorter cruise. Island hopping around the caribbean or the Bahamas is possible in small boats, and many do it. Continuous sailing for hundreds of miles is another thing.

In the Bahamas and the rest of the Caribbean, it's much like other beautiful sailing places where strong currents are normal between islands or peninsulas. The steady 15+ tradewinds of the tropics however, add to the problems of currents because to take advantage of the winds to travel you must sail counter current, which may be up to 5 knots over the ground, and that creates confused and odd seas on top of the swells. And if you want to take advantage of currents to speed you on your way, you may have the same confused seas but are slogging into the wind and pounding a light displacement boat. Wear and tear on sails and rigging increases dramatically with that kind of hard work, not to mention it's no fun for the crew.

For extended cruising, not just day tripping or island hopping in the Caribbean, east or west portion , I'd say a minimum of 30 ft. in a shoal draft, mediium displacement boat would be the ticket for comfort and safety.

There are several cruising forums on the web, and it might help you decide by reading some of thier cruising logs. Also on the web, Data from real time weather buoys gives you an idea of an area's wave and wind scales.
Hope this helps.

[Paul S]

Not sure..but we were caught in a SCA with winds 25+ and 3-5' waves and the boat handled just fine.. I was scared sh*tless..but we made it just the same...I would not want to do that again!! But the boat held up well..had the power to do what you needed to do...

I am a nutcase...so I would have the tendancy to go out and play where you really shouldn't take a Mac. I felt quite safe and secure after that incident.. The Mac can take more than the average owner wants to give it credit for...

Of course...I am sure most other 'real' sailboats would make 'better' blue water boats...so there may be better choices for a blue water boat.

If you play by the rules..watch the weather and have your ears glued to the radio...you should be in good shape..

Paul

[aya16]

ask rich he goes where no man has gone before.

[Catigale]

Welcome Jeff. The Mac is not a blue water boat. It is a lightly built boat designed for trailering and coastal cruising. The people who use it in blue water, like the Conch Cruisers referenced above, are experienced sailors who leverage group safety, watch weather windows, and have invested a lot of time into upgrade weak areas of their boats for cruising. The fact that they can do this trip safely says little about their boats, and more about their group seamanship.

Buying a stock Mac, and cruising the Caribbean is not prudent, imho, especially if this is your first boat. Get to know her for a few years before venturing out on something this big alone. If you are spending weeks in the Islands, you will get caught by weather eventually, and so will need to know how to deal with this.

[jetta01]

Ya Mike, the dogs were along that day!! Those were some pretty darn big swells. It was amazing because we would go over the top and look back, but could not see the other boats in the bottom of the swell. The Macs did great!! So, is it a blue water boat?? Is any boat a blue water boat? Sure, the Mac can handle the blue water and several members of the board have done some incredible crossings with the Mac. Will it be a comfortable trip? That depends on the weather. You have to remember that it is 26 feet long. Most cruisers are running 40's. Sort of like running a motocross track on a moped vs. a dirtbike. You can do it, but depending on how rough the track is will depend on your level of enjoyment.

So if you want to go into the blue water with a Mac, go for it. Just be prepared, study the weather, have an EPIRB and know what the heck you are doing out there!!

[Chinook]

We took our 26x to the northern Bahamas in March 04. Took off from West Palm Beach for West End on Grand Bahama, a 65 mile crossing of the Gulf Stream. We carefully timed the weather for the crossing, and then spend 2 months cruising the Abacos, as far south as Little Harbor. Once across, cruising was mostly protected waters. We fared well on the east bound crossing in 3 to 5 foot swell, with 10 knot winds.

I agree with the comments elsewhere in this post regarding the importance of seamanship, timing the weather, and having plenty of time to wait out the weather (we got pinned down twice for a full week each time). The Mac is fine for properly timed crossings, but not for extended blue water passages, unless you're maddmike on Zeno's Arrow.

One interesting note on our return crossing. We left on the first good day in over a week, and by good I mean a forecast of 10 knot winds from the northeast to east, with 6 foot residual swell. The winds clocked to the east, which agreed well enough with the Gulf Stream. We were in company of a 42 foot ketch, and we had a much better time crossing than they did. The 6 foot following sea was quartering on the starboard side. Our buddy boat was getting kicked all over the place. We, on the other hand were able to catch and surf the swell, surging to 11 knots every time a roller swept up. I think the quick steering response of the outboard, along with the planing hull, was a big help in those conditions.

[aya16]

I think the point to all this would be that for the average guy a blue water boat is nothing more than a dock queen if the weather turns a little sour.
Same for the Mac except we have an excuse to not go out. Most of the boats at the Marina I stay at are nothing but beach front property. Those boats dont even see good days on the water for the most part. And some are what dreams are made of. I see them all the time coming and going and they are always in the same spot in their slip. What a waist. But If I owned one of them whos to say I wouldnt do the same. Besides we who own a Mac and would like to move up have to prove to ourselves and others that we would use it. So the side benny is we use the Mac alot.
and in doing so become very happy with the little boat that could......
I love my Mac and the people that I meet that love theirs. Even if they flirt with or have an affair with another boat.
Right Rich, youll be back.

[maddmike]

As my name & boat have now managed to pop up on the thread, I would like to make a couple of observations:

#1 There are bluewater boats and there are bluewater sailors.

#2 The best for going off-shore safely is a blue water boat, rigged for blue water crossings by an experienced off-shore sailor and crewed with the proper number of experienced people.

#3 The worst for off-shore would be a non bluewater boat (like the MAC), piloted by someone new to sailing and overcrewed with inexperenced people.

#4 The challenge is to find somewhere in between #2 & #3 that is affordable, relatively safe and with which you are comfortable.

#5 The MAC can fit the bill, but it is not the BEST, nor the Safest option, unless you already really, really know what you are doing and are willing to extensively modify the boat.

#6 The MAC is a great place to start and when you get comfortable with it and have enough time under your belt (if you have been pushing yourself a little along the way), then you will be in the proper position to answer the question that started this thread yourself; which is of course where many of us most likely want to be someday.

Chinook is right on all this; with enough time & weather information you can safely do many of the things you want with the MAC. On my first crossing to the Bahamas I departed from Burt Renyolds park in the late afternoon in what I knew would be rough conditions (6 ft. seas, higher in the Gulf Stream-winds from the S/E at 15 Kts) not recommended for any boats. Because I departed in Zeno's Arrow (keep in mind I just spent near a year in the Arctic Ocean in often much worse conditions), 7 other boats including Island Packets and other larger well rigged cruising boats decided to 'go for it' (they had already been waiting a week for good weather). I went because I wanted to take my boat and myself to the 'next level' and was fully prepared for what I knew would be coming. When I arrived at Great Sail Cay only one of the other boats that left Florida with me completed the crossing (a Heritage 38), all the others had turned back. At no time did I feel I was exceeding the limits of the boat, or my ability. Was it uncomfortable? yes. Did I get the 'do do' kicked out of me during the crossing? You bet. Would a stock MAC have made it? No way, it would have lost the rudders and maybe the centerboard. Would an inexperienced/new Capt. have done OK? I would hope he would have been smart enough to turn around.

The point is you don't jump into something like that without first 'paying your dues', but eventually down the line, should you accidently find yourself in such conditions, having built your skill level up is worth its weight in gold. For me the payoff was when I got off the coast of South America and found myself in like and worse conditions on occasion. Ya, I get scared when things got bad (you would be stupid not to), but I never once felt that the boat was not up to surviving the conditions.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the MAC is not a bluewater boat, but it is in my opinion the best place for someone to start in boating, even if their eventual goal is to sail down island. MM

[Catigale]

Jeff - Ill take a shot at condensing some of these thoughts

If you buy a Mac, it is doubtful you will exceed structural capacities of the boat by taking it offshore, as long as you are prudent about weather and conditions.

Pretty much everyone recommends spending a few years in your boat before tackling a big trip (you might be able to leverage a group trip to skirt this one)

One of the beauties of the Mac, imho, is you can buy it as a starter boat and end up taking 'higher end' trips without having to take the financial bath of moving up.

Ive done Nantucket single handed - when I came back to the lower cape in a 26 I got some stares from the keel boaters like "You went across in that??" which made the trip worth it just for that!!

[jeffh1971]

Some great responses! Thanks guys. You all have answered a lot of my questions. I am not an experienced sailor but have a strong desire to become one. After doing a ton of research, for me, the MAC makes a lot of sense. I will primarily be doing a lot of lake sailing in my home waters of Tennessee and the mobility of being able to trailor the MAC makes sense. Also, since I have no prior sailing experience, I feel that the MAC would provide me with a great boat upon which to learn, in safer waters, without investing a fortune.

One of my goals is to someday have the skill level to sail through the Floriday Keys and it sounds like when I develop the skill, the MAC will be more than able to handle those types of trips. My primary emphasis for making this post was to determine whether the MAC would be able to cross the gulf steam safely given the right conditions and experience level of the captain. It sounds like from your responses that the boat is capable of blue water crossings, but ulimately is not designed for that use.

Again, thanks for your responses. I have a long way to go before I can begin to rationalize taking ANY boat across the gulf stream. At any rate, I think the MAC would provide a great platform for me to begin my journey of becoming a sailor, and it sounds like the MAC is just a lop of fun to use. Thanks again!