Tow Beast Brake Pads and Rotors

[taime1]

I need to replace the pads and rotors on my tow vehicle, for the four corners and am looking for some advice. I've been getting a few quotes at local shops, in the range of $500 to $1000. I have a 2006 Ford Expedition, which is a beautiful ride, terrible on fuel, and parts aren't cheap, but I love it.

Anyway, I've also been looking at getting pads and rotors and putting them on myself, or getting a shop to do it. From my googling, I've come across what appear to be some top-rated (but at a reasonable price) heavy duty towing pads and rotors made by Powerstop http://www.powerstop.com/products. The cheapest I could find are about $400 for the kit, shipping to the US included (I'd have to go pick them up in Ogdensburg, NY).

Another set I found was on Ebay - I'm a bit weary about ordering such critical components from Ebay, but the reviews are very positive and the seller's feedback is very good. The seller is called Brakemotive http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid= ... &_from=R40, and a complete kit for my vehicle is about $210, shipping to US included. It appears as though these brake pads and rotors are actually made by Powerstop.

I don't know if there is a big difference between these two kits, if I'm just kidding myself that a $200 brake and rotor kit would be good enough for my uses, safety, and towing purposes, or if the $400 kit is overkill. Getting the things put on would likely cost about $100-$150, but at least I'd know what parts I'd be getting.

Does anyone have experience with either of these products or can recommend others?

[dlandersson]

OTOH, a quote of $500 isn't far from the price of the kit.

OTOH, an ebay seller with good feedback (more than 100) has a vested interest in keeping their customers happy.

[Russ]

Do you trailer often on steep roads? Does your trailer have brakes? Do you need heavy duty brakes on the tow beast?

Stopping is not a luxury. I would never go the cheap route, but if you don't overheat your brakes normally, a heavy duty system may be overkill.

[Jeff L]

I drive a 3/4 ton Savanna van, and a 3/4 ton Ford long bed standard cab.
Both heavy vehicles empty. I go for the best parts, even if it hurts my Scottish
feelings. It is more important to be able to stop, than to able to go...

[taime1]

OTOH, a quote of $500 isn't far from the price of the kit.

OTOH, an ebay seller with good feedback (more than 100) has a vested interest in keeping their customers happy.

Yeah, the $500 quote is from Canadian Tire using parts of unknown origin, but that are guaranteed for life. I'm not all that confident in trusting my stopping abilities with their products. They do have good tires though.

I've read some car and truck forums on the Brake Motive kits, all good reviews, but they were mostly within the first few months of using the products, nother over the long term.

Do you trailer often on steep roads? Does your trailer have brakes? Do you need heavy duty brakes on the tow beast?

Stopping is not a luxury. I would never go the cheap route, but if you don't overheat your brakes normally, a heavy duty system may be overkill.

Good questions - I don't normally trailer on steep roads, but it does happen. My trailer does have brakes. I'm usually of the opinion that if something is worth doing, it's worth overdoing. So if I can put on something heavy duty for about the same price ofa cheapy, I generally go that route. But a $200 pad and rotor kit sure is enticing.

I drive a 3/4 ton Savanna van, and a 3/4 ton Ford long bed standard cab.
Both heavy vehicles empty. I go for the best parts, even if it hurts my Scottish
feelings. It is more important to be able to stop, than to able to go...

Very good points, the Expedition is pretty heavy also. I use it as my daily driver and it does have the most precious cargo that I pick up from daycare.

[raycarlson]

First there is no such thing as heavy duty anymore. What was considered heavy duty in the past is now what comes on only 3/4 or 1 ton trucks, those systems cannot be gotten an any 1/2 ton truck or van unless it has a gvw of 9000# or more. Go to rockauto.com and order any namebrand product i.e. Wagner, Rayspestes, Delco in their semi-metallic composition. How are you determining that you need rotors because you probably don't but if you mention it a shop will jump right on the band wagon and sell you them for sure. Stay away from the gimmicky hotrod high performance sounding crap, your not getting anything for your money there.

[taime1]

How are you determining that you need rotors because you probably don't but if you mention it a shop will jump right on the band wagon and sell you them for sure.

That's a very good question. I think they are the original rotors, the truck has a little under 100,000 miles - I have no clue as to if they need to be replaced or not. I bought the truck just this year and when I safetied it, it needed new tires and I was told by the PO that it would probably need new brakes. When I got the tires put on, the mechanic saw that the pads were super thin and gave me a quote with both pads and rotors. It never occurred to me that the rotors might not need to be changed.

I'll check out Rockauto.

How does one tell if they need to be changed?

[Tomfoolery]

How does one tell if they need to be changed?

If they have grooves or deep scratches in them, they need to be replaced. If they don't, it doesn't mean they're still good, but there's a good chance they still are. If you have a micrometer or good caliper, you may be able to measure them for minimum thickness (should be quite a bit thicker than min), and they can then be recut to make them like new. I've been away from this kind of stuff for decades, but I believe they're recut right on the vehicle these days. But you'd need a shop to do it.

[seahouse]

The rotors can be turned down to a minimum dimension in thickness (easily measured with a caliper, and often that dimension is located somewhere on the rotor), once that's reached, they need to be discarded. (By law).

If they've been turned once already, even though they likely came from the factory with a lot of meat on them (trucks do, but a lot of rotors coming from the factory now cannot be turned down, they come pretty thin, and are automatically tossed) I would toss them any way for new rotors. Each time the rotors are turned, it reduces their thickness, which also reduces their heat-dissipating ability and their performance. So new rotors will outperform a turned down rotor every time. Considering that you carry precious cargo, tow a boat, and have a heavy vehicle, turning them down could turn out to be a false economy.

-B.

[taime1]

Considering that you carry precious cargo, tow a boat, and have a heavy vehicle, turning them down could turn out to be a false economy.

Agreed. New rotors it is.

Just need to figure out which ones, the logistics of getting them and then the installation. I'm leaning towards the Powerstop towing ones as they come in a kit and seem to be good quality at a pretty good price point.

[mastreb]

I replace rotors and brakes at the same time, every time. I use longer wear pads and thinner rotors and just call the whole system a matched set. I hate new brakes/old rotors as they're always soft until the brakes match the grooves on the rotor.

But then I'm also the guy who lets the dealer roll him for $1500 every time this comes up.

[mrron_tx]

Taime1 That Ford is considered heavy duty already....but...so is My Dodge 3500 dually...and I only replace brake pads with new premium pads...PERIOD Now...having said that....look/ask around for the best/most popular auto parts store....while You are there...kindly ask the ( most likely ) wild haired kid who might just be a real motorhead , if He could take a look at Your rotors.....They "usually" don't warp unless as stated earlier , You or the po run heavy , hard and do a lot of down hill braking to get them that hot. I've got over 300K on My Beast...never needed rotors Best of luck to You . Ron.

[yukonbob]

If your rotors aren't warped or totally trashed you may be able to get them turned (re-surface i.e ground down) with new OEM pads for around $500.00 but if its not possible I'd look into any upgrades in the rotors. $1200-$1500 might get you slotted and vented rotors which will last a lot longer plus better stopping; if they're available for the make/model. Won't hurt to look into it either way

*edit: I see the turning has been adressed several times now that I've actually taken the time to read everything thoroughly

[seahouse]

OK. I'll play the Devil's advocate here. *

Warping is just one issue among many, although it is true that the thinner the rotor the more likely it is to warp. Scoring, glazing and rust outside the pad-swept area, and inside the cooling vanes are other reasons. Salt roads in the north makes things on a car rust faster, and layers of rust can be a good insulator. Not good to have insulation on your brake rotors, insulation that also reduces the size of the passages through which the rotor vanes pump air for cooling.

I'm not saying you can't turn them, of course. But I am saying that if you do turn them, you should do it with your eyes wide open to the fact that you are trading down brake performance each time you do it. I think the priority judgement of your brakes should tend more towards their performance, and not towards how little you can spend, or how long you can make them last. But, clearly this is my opinion, and my own priorities might be different than other's.

A new rotor will beat the old thinner one every time in braking performance, regardless of how much meat was on the disk thickness when it was new (that part's not my opinion, that part is physics ). Envision an emergency hard full stop from highway speed. Now envision stopping two car lengths ahead of where you just stopped. Maybe those two car lengths would have put your front bumper into the back seat of the car ahead. (And in some circumstances the difference can very easily be well over two car lengths). Google “brake fade”.

It's not unlike the performance vs cheapo tires debate, it's a false economy because, like choosing the right tires, you have an opportunity to reduce your stopping distance, plus reduce the onset of early brake fade. If you avoid only one collision in your entire lifetime because of it you have avoided a potentially considerable, but immeasurable cost. That cost will almost certainly be more than the amount you would save in many lifetimes of cheaping out on tires or brakes. To me, not only is it not worth the risk, but it doesn't make financial sense either.

-B.

* I know, I know, çause I suck so bad at it.

[Highlander]

most of the new rotors are made of so cheap material as in cheaply cast steel quality , turning the old rotors will cost u just as much as buying new ones ! so why waist ur time plus the time & labour to clean out the rust form the vents between the rotors & because they r made of such cheap casting they maybe require more than one turning so their goes about 40% of ur rotors cooling ability & ur brake pads life span
I just replaced the front rotors & pads & calipers one of the two pistons on one of calipers was sticking , only replaced the pads & parking brake shoes & spring kits on the rear brakes as the combination rotor/drum was ok , but again had to replace rear calipers also as one got cooked due too a brake caliper flex line that had collasped internaly thus holding on that brake so i changed both rear calipers & flex lines , my tow beast is a Ford F-150 with a 9600# towing capacity
I'm a lic tech so have all the necc tools & ability to perform the work & access to trade discount on parts , so that helps, but still do not like working on my own vehicles eats up my boat mod & sailing time , but allows me to save lots of $$$ which in turn becomes boat $ for boat mods & new boat toys

J