different m models

[Wayne nicol]

1.were there any of the models that had the head starboard of the companionway, and galley portside- like the old

2.what were the real"improvements of the newer hull design over the older hull?

thanks
wayne

[dlandersson]

The "M" has a 15 degree V shaped hull from better sailing performance. The "X" has a 5 degree V shaped hull for faster planing - still sails faster than a blue "M" tho.

1.were there any of the models that had the head starboard of the companionway, and galley portside- like the old

2.what were the real"improvements of the newer hull design over the older hull?

thanks
wayne

[Azzarac]

1> No

2> What DL said

We sailed both the and when we were searching for a boat but did not see a discernible difference in sailing characteristics between the two models. We did find a big comfort difference in the layout below however. For our family of 4 the seemed roomier and much better laid out for how we use our boat.

Fair Winds,
Capt. Azzarac
Chameleon
Follow Chameleon's travels at: http://svchameleon.weebly.com/

[Obelix]

The head in the was always past the daggerboard trunk on the starboard site. The only layout change in the that I'm aware off was that the 2004 had not the sliding galley on port, but a fixed galley next to the daggerboard trunk on starboard.

Obelix

[Hardcrab]

Make that the 03 and 04 M's with the fixed starboard galley.
Along about 06 or 07, the helm changed from a SS tube to the current fiberglass helm.
Along about 07 or 08, the aluminum trailer and plastic sheet winches showed up.
Along about 08 or 09, the interior lost the fake wood trim pieces around the cabin ports.

[u12fly]

...
2.what were the real"improvements of the newer hull design over the older hull?

thanks
wayne

The M has a larger cabin (inside) then the X. Since the boats are about same physical size (out dimensions) that means you get a larger cockpit in the X. The aft birth in the X is cramped below, since the cockpit area is wider and longer than in the M. But in the M the aft birth is very usable by 2 adults. So if you rarely plan to overnight on the boat the X is the better deal. If you want to spend days on the boat, I'd lean toward the M.

[Wind Chime]

Wayne,

It comes down to personal preference.

We chose the because we liked the; open concept, enclosed head, larger cockpit, fixed mast.
We do extened trips up to 14 days and slept in the aft berth for the first two years just fine, but now sleep in the V-birth.

by u12fly » Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:00 pm

The M has a larger cabin (inside) then the model x . Since the boats are about same physical size (out dimensions) that means you get a larger cockpit in the X. The aft birth in the X is cramped below, since the cockpit area is wider and longer than in the M. But in the M the aft birth is very usable by 2 adults. So if you rarely plan to overnight on the boat the X is the better deal. If you want to spend days on the boat, I'd lean toward the M.

[mastreb]

The M also has noticeably more headroom if you're tall. The cockpit is more cramped than the X, and while the cabin is larger, it's split up by the daggerboard trunk and so it winds up feeling smaller.

The design of the M is constrained by the central location of the daggerboard trunk. That dictated the location of the head, the position of the table, and the size of the cockpit because the cabin would be too cramped if it were longer. The move to the sliding galley was a big improvement in cabin space in my opinion and it creates the largest berth in the boat, which is where I sleep. You can also easily remove the sliding galley from the boat if you're only day-sailing, which opens up a lot of space.

The X, with its centerboard, had a much more flexible design plan and has a better cockpit and interior space layout, but for sailing performance I prefer the daggerboard and the rotating mast of the M.

In all, it's personal preference but I really think you should go aboard the two boats before making a decision. It's the small stuff that makes a difference.

[Wind Chime]

One other thing to consider is that there is a little more open floor space at the base of the campanionway on the M.
Becuase the X has the swing centerboard, the keel well is above the sole and that leaves only a few feet to port at the galley and going forward.

[Wayne nicol]

thanks all,
just seems i would like a combination of the two:
better hull ( slightly more Vee- more comfortable power boating in a slight chop- but would use more hp)
like the greater space in the rear berth , but would surely like the head aft ,like on the .
standing room in the head, with a possibility for a shower!.
retain the sliding galley
wonder if i have the courage to take a zip disc to the inside of my nice new
i honestly dont mind the daggerboard trunk intrusion- could incorporate it into the table, making it a bit bigger and way more solid. it would open up the whole front of the interior.
well maybe food for thought, for the future sometime.

[MacTommy]

Oh no, I think I have seen someone trying to compare and previously on this Board?

The M mast is more than one meter higher, at the same time as the boom is half a meter lower.
That is why the M also have more water ballast.
The X is flat underneath. Have you seen any other flat sailboats?
And have you tried to use engine for fast movement against the waves in a flat-bottomed weekend-cruiser?

That was the facts. I think you can do the Math.

[Wayne nicol]

ooh ouch!! but thanks anyway MacTommy, didnt realise there were forum police on here but its more of a layout comparison, for the different m models! I certainly understand the improved performance of the - guess thats why i bought the , after lots of consideration and deliberation. in fact if you look at the thread title it makes reference to "different M models"
i think Mastreb explained it very clearly, as to why the boats interior was laid out as it was. and i get that - makes sense!!

just for my intended use, i sure would like the head aft, for the standing head room, possibility for a shower, and the proximity to the stern berth.
and was wondering if this had ever been done in any of the many different M models- otherwise i might have to end up doing it myself!!
many thanks

[BOAT]

The number ONE issue is the trailer - if you must trailer the boat, or if you will slip the boat. There are HUNDREDS of great boats in the class but they ALL require a slip. If your talking a trailer boat - it really narrows the field.

I ONLY considered trailer boats. I always wanted the X boat. That was the boat that made me change to a MAC. At the time I discovered the MAC X I did not have storage for a boat, and life got in the way and children and we forgot about it. When we finally many years later got back to a place in our lives to get a boat, I went to the MAC place to finally get one and was devastated! I thought they ruined the MAC! "Where is that great enclosed head?!?" I asked, "What did you do to the interior color?!?" I looked around and it all seemed so dark to me - I remembered the MAC as open and white and breezy with big windows and - well, everything was just wrong now!! I went home with no boat - I was so disappointed, and at that time just could not bring myself to embrace the changes.

Finally, a couple more years later (in 2013) my wife and i were talking about how we had explored almost every corner of the US in our little RV and needed a vehicle to get us into even more places - we realized we needed a boat. I shopped for cuddy cabins mostly - I needed a coastal trawler or something that could go long distances on little fuel out in the Pacific. We had NO budget - we decided the best way to search was assume money was not relevant - just go for the best thing we could find for us and figure out the money later.

Every decision, every revelation, every test drive brought us back to the MAC. For our needs it was the best coastal Pac Cruiser on a trailer.

Advantages between X and M?? Mostly, the X has a way better head. The X head can be a great shower too. I have a shower mod for the M but have not revealed it yet - (I have the same shower in my van RV). I still like the X better as far as the interior, but the exterior - the M is superior to me because the stepped double window deck adds a LOT of strength to the deck and makes it look better too. But the double corvette stripes make the deck more slippery than the X. (I have fallen over 20 times already).

The M cockpit is too small, the the M transom is superior to the X. I think you would be happy with either boat.

The hull on the M (particularly the 2011 and newer models) are a bit heavier because after they moved the trailer bunks later models were built with layup ribs glassed into the hull at the support points and another layer of cloth was added to the bottom liner where is joins the hull. The X boat is a little lighter and probably a lot easier to work on too.

As for the performance stuff, well, all the changed made to the M were for that reason only as far as I can tell - I suppose there are other reasons too, but really aside from the performance issue I think the X boat is probably a littler bit better as far as interior comfort for two people. You can go either way and you will be happy.

The performance advantage on the M is just a big bonus for me because I was already accustomed to trailer boats and as a whole they all have lousy performance compared to a keel boat (unless you get into multihulls) so the M performance was a real pleasant surprise to me - if your in an X I would not feel slighted by the performance because as a trailer boat it's as good as any.

[Wayne nicol]

thanks boat, for a comprehensive reply.
i did lots of research- but surely not to the extent that you did- kudo's man. well informed decision!!
but i feel like you- love everything about the M. the improved performance, the strength, the exterior, but would have liked the old X interior-
almost... almost thinking about changing things up down below!!

would love to see, or hear more about your shower mod, i really need to install one.
thanks
wayne

[mastreb]

I too am looking for a reasonable shower solution for our Mac--it's the one thing that limits how long I can stay aboard. I'd love to do a lot more gunkholing around the Channel islands but I can't stand missing a shower.

We have the transom shower installed by the factory, but have only used it once. It's fine for rinsing off after swimming in salt, but I just can't see taking a bath out in the cockpit.

But I'm also 6'5" and 270lbs., so while I can get into the head by lining myself up and kind of plopping backwards, getting out of the head is like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh2iyPmucFk

Matt