Further CDI furler questions

[enufsed]

Following up on earlier questions about my CDI furler, here are some more that are distinct enough that I feel they warrant this fresh thread.

1. Concerning the bottom end of the furler (close to the deck)

The black plastic top of the furler separates easily from the round metal drum. I believe it should not do this. If there’s any “upward” pressure from, say, the bottom of the jib, the two items separate.

So, what is going on here? Is there some trick to keep the two together? I wonder if I’m missing a part. Please don’t tell me to read the manual – I have read it 20 times and find it incomprehensible (at least on this point). And the diagrams suck and the photos are not clear enough.

2. Concerning the top end of the furler (close to the mast)

I need to thread the thin halyard rope into the hole of the black plastic top of the furler, then feed it down the grey plastic furler slot (on the opposite side of the sail). I have not done this before (due to the sail having remained on the furler since the day I boat the boat, until when I needed to have the sail repaired).

Should I expect the halyard to feed in one side and out the other easily? Or should I anticipate having to take the black plastic component apart (unscrew it)?

My guess is that all of this could easily be shown to me by someone with experience; it’s difficult to describe these actions in words. But hopefully someone can provide the technical details that are unclear to me from the manual.

I have not found a You Tube video on this, unfortunately.

[trdprotruck]

1. Concerning the bottom end of the furler (close to the deck)
The weight of the luff and sail will prevent the black plastic furling drum from separating from the SS cup. Even if you were to manage to lift up all of this weight, the top of the luff is limited by the end of your forestay. I would not worry about this. You will see how this works when you fully assemble it and hoist the head sail. I was trying to adjust the turnbuckle inside the plastic drum and could not lift it until I completely removed the weight of the jib.

2. Concerning the top end of the furler (close to the mast)
Did you remove the halyard completely from the furler? If so, you may need to unscrew the halyard top fitting to remove it and feed the halyard through. Remember to tie a line to the halyard before you raise the mast or you will have to take everything down again to raise the sail.

Hope this helps,

Randy

Following up on earlier questions about my CDI furler, here are some more that are distinct enough that I feel they warrant this fresh thread.

1. Concerning the bottom end of the furler (close to the deck)

The black plastic top of the furler separates easily from the round metal drum. I believe it should not do this. If there’s any “upward” pressure from, say, the bottom of the jib, the two items separate.

So, what is going on here? Is there some trick to keep the two together? I wonder if I’m missing a part. Please don’t tell me to read the manual – I have read it 20 times and find it incomprehensible (at least on this point). And the diagrams suck and the photos are not clear enough.

2. Concerning the top end of the furler (close to the mast)

I need to thread the thin halyard rope into the hole of the black plastic top of the furler, then feed it down the grey plastic furler slot (on the opposite side of the sail). I have not done this before (due to the sail having remained on the furler since the day I boat the boat, until when I needed to have the sail repaired).

Should I expect the halyard to feed in one side and out the other easily? Or should I anticipate having to take the black plastic component apart (unscrew it)?

My guess is that all of this could easily be shown to me by someone with experience; it’s difficult to describe these actions in words. But hopefully someone can provide the technical details that are unclear to me from the manual.

I have not found a You Tube video on this, unfortunately.

[K9Kampers]

#1. BTDT! Have taken the spool assembly apart & reassmbled after reading manual 20 times too! My spool still floats off the cup at times. I think I need to place a fender washer at the top between the halyard top fitting and the crimped ferrule.

[enufsed]

Did you remove the halyard completely from the furler? If so, you may need to unscrew the halyard top fitting to remove it and feed the halyard through. Remember to tie a line to the halyard before you raise the mast or you will have to take everything down again to raise the sail.quote]

Randy, yes the halyard was removed completely due to the sail being taken off for repair. Okay, I get it now that I may have to remove the top fitting. Grrr.

I'm thinking of manually feeding the sail into its track and rolling it on the furler when the mast is down (i.e., actually take the furler and sail off the boat and set it up on the ground and and tie everything off -- then raise the mast with the furler already "done").

However, your idea is also a good one. If I "get" what you're saying correctly, you're imagining:

1. The sail is off the furler
2. I install the halyard in the groove opposite the one into which the sail is fed
3. Attach a line to the captive at the end of the halyard before raising the mast
4. Raise the mast and use the extra line to pull down the halyard and attach the top of the jib
5. Detach the extra line, then raise the halyard
6. Secure the bottom of the halyard to the black plastic top of the furler drum

I only wonder about what to do with the extra halyard rope? i.e., I will need a much longer length of halyard if I'm to use it to raise the sail (such that once the sail is up, there will be extra rope lying on the deck). Or do folks tie an extra length of rope to the halyard just to lengthen it for raising and lowering (and remove when the sail is in use)?

[trdprotruck]

Almost...

Here's what I'd do.
1. Assemble furler with forestay already fed through the furler's platic luff.
2. Feed Halyard all the way down the plastic luff with the halyard end that attaches to the head sail at the bottom near the drum.
3. Attach an extra line to the halyard at the top of the luff for raising the sail later.
4. Install forestay and raise the mast.
5. Attach your furling line and start turning the drum. (make sure it is the correct direction according to the sun protector on your sail.
6. Attach headsail at the bottom of the plastic drum to your halyard and feed into luff.
7. Pull on your extra line that you attached to the halyard and raise your head sail.
8. Remove your extra line and attach your halyard to the furler drum. Attach your sail to the furler drum to get rid of the wrinkles.
9. Pull on your furling line with slight tension on your sheets.
10. Done

Hope this makes sense.

-Randy

However, your idea is also a good one. If I "get" what you're saying correctly, you're imagining:

1. The sail is off the furler
2. I install the halyard in the groove opposite the one into which the sail is fed
3. Attach a line to the captive at the end of the halyard before raising the mast
4. Raise the mast and use the extra line to pull down the halyard and attach the top of the jib
5. Detach the extra line, then raise the halyard
6. Secure the bottom of the halyard to the black plastic top of the furler drum

I only wonder about what to do with the extra halyard rope? i.e., I will need a much longer length of halyard if I'm to use it to raise the sail (such that once the sail is up, there will be extra rope lying on the deck). Or do folks tie an extra length of rope to the halyard just to lengthen it for raising and lowering (and remove when the sail is in use)?

[K9Kampers]

I'm thinking of manually feeding the sail into its track and rolling it on the furler when the mast is down (i.e., actually take the furler and sail off the boat and set it up on the ground and and tie everything off -- then raise the mast with the furler already "done").

I did this at the end / beginning of two seasons before I fully understood the simplicity & ease of doing it on the boat!

The 'extra' halyard line is not an extra-long halyard, but rather a second line tied to the halyard for the purpose described, commonly refered to as a 'messenger line'.

[enufsed]

Okay, this finally makes sense! (Describing procedures with numbered points really helps!)

A couple of niggly follow-up questions:

A. What would you use for the messenger line (i.e., thinner rope than the halyard or what)?

B. How would you attach the messenger line to the halyard (e.g., special knot?) such that the point of connection wouldn't jam in the luff track when pulling downward? (There will be a lot of tension on the halyard/messenger raising the sail -- even with sailcoat used -- and one wouldn't want the connection to break part-way, nor for a knot to jam in the track.)

[trdprotruck]

Since there is a ferule (metal slug) keeping the halyard in the luff track, you can attach any diameter messenger line to the couple of inches of the halyard end not in track and attach it outside of the plastic luff. Wow that was kinda hard to put in words.

-Randy

Okay, this finally makes sense! (Describing procedures with numbered points really helps!)

A couple of niggly follow-up questions:

A. What would you use for the messenger line (i.e., thinner rope than the halyard or what)?

B. How would you attach the messenger line to the halyard (e.g., special knot?) such that the point of connection wouldn't jam in the luff track when pulling downward? (There will be a lot of tension on the halyard/messenger raising the sail -- even with sailcoat used -- and one wouldn't want the connection to break part-way, nor for a knot to jam in the track.)

[Catigale]

Use a bowline knot in messenger and the halyard, with the loops connected. Since a bowline knot releases easily off tension, easy to undo but won't slip

You should have a pin at the top of the cup, which will go under the grey extrusion. You have to lift the extrusion and push it up the forestay to put that pin in. Once it is in,
It places the weight of the sail on the cup and prevents it from riding up. Sounds like you might be missing the pin?

[vizwhiz]

Yes, to confirm a couple things:
1. The black plastic top is just a "hole" through it in a rounded shape that you can just feed one end of the rope in, and it will pop out the other side (unless there's a bug nest or something in there). There's no "hardware" or anything inside it to catch the rope, just a path for the rope to follow. The screw doesn't allow it to come apart, only to separate from the gray luff track.

2. The bottom end of the halyard you will pull down on to raise the sail (and tie the messenger line to) should stick out of the luff track due to the metal band, as noted in the other post...it doesn't run in the luff track. What I would call the "tag end" of that halyard below the metal clip, is only about two feet long...making the halyard about two feet longer than the luff (plus a little to go over the black thing at the top). So with the metal clip at the top (and the two feet of halyard tag end sticking out) the other end of the halyard (which you attach to the headsail) should be hanging down around the bottom of the luff track where the sail boltrope is fed.

3. Think window blinds on a 20' tall window - rope starts out short and up at the top, pull the rope down, blinds go up, rope comes down. Blinds are your jib in the luff track, rope is your halyard. In this case, you're attaching a "messenger line" to the end of the rope that you pull on just so you can reach it (because it's going to start out a the top of the luff track 20' up the forestay). Once you pull the halyard down and the blinds (jib) goes up, you'll have the halyard end down at the bottom by the furler drum, and that two feet or so of rope is what you use to tie to the drum...don't need the messenger line anymore, so you take it off.

4. I've done this several times off the boat also until I figured it out. Easy to understand if you do it once on the ground. However, hoisting the entire furled jib onto the boat and attaching to the mast is a pain, so it's easier, once you understand it, to do it on the boat. If you need some pics, I'll take some tonight and post them...

[Hamin' X]

Use a bowline knot in messenger and the halyard, with the loops connected. Since a bowline knot releases easily off tension, easy to undo but won't slip.

Much easier to just use a sheet bend knot. Basically a bowline tied with two ends. Won't slip and easily undone.

~Rich

[c130king]

But will either a bowline (two bowlines) or a sheet bend flow through the furler?

I haven't tried yet but it looks like it would be very tight fit to squeeze a knot through there.

[trdprotruck]

But will either a bowline (two bowlines) or a sheet bend flow through the furler?

I haven't tried yet but it looks like it would be very tight fit to squeeze a knot through there.

The ferule (metal band) stays in the luff, but the knot remains on the outside of the luff extrusion.

[c130king]

But will either a bowline (two bowlines) or a sheet bend flow through the furler?

I haven't tried yet but it looks like it would be very tight fit to squeeze a knot through there.

The ferule (metal band) stays in the luff, but the knot remains on the outside of the luff extrusion.

I did not know that. I will look for that next time I have the boat at the house...just a couple weeks.

[Catigale]

I found the sheet bend slipped, but I had a mismatched size between messenger and halyard. The sheet bend is the knot of choice for that of course. Two bowlines never slip.