Need some advice!!!

[IowaBrian]

I'll try to make a long story kind of short. I've been surfing a lot of web sites and this one seems to have the best bunch of posters by far. Here I go....... I don't think this will be as short as you'd all like.

I'm 45 and my wonderful wife is 48. We live in Sioux City, Iowa, not exactly the sailing hub of the free world. She's an RN in the ER at a local hospital, and I'm a military pilot. We've spent the last 18 years raising our son and walleye fishing in the big reservoirs in South Dakota aboard a 21' Lund (Powerboat). We vacation somewhat frequently to the Caribbean to scuba dive. We've often talked about spending a few years of our retirement sailing. The truth is, neither of us know jack about a sailboat. Although in the immortal words of Bill Murray in "Stripes", "We're willing to learn!".

So...I spent the last two weeks researching data for my new Walleye Boat. $36,000 for the boat and electronics. Then I happen to run across the MAC 26M on a website accidentally. (possible spelling error). Both my wife and I can't get it off of our mind. I keep asking myself, "if not now, when?". My current boat will work fine for fishing trips.

We're not talking about circumnavigating the globe when we retire, just having some fun when the weather permits. Although as a pilot, I'm well aware that mother nature can be a mother. (No offense intended).

Here's the $36,000 question. Is the MAC a reasonably good boat to start learning how to sail? I really like the idea of being able to motor at times and a trailer is a must for me. We would primarily use Lake Francis Case and Lewis and Clark Lake, both in South Dakota. For those of you unfamiliar with these, they are relatively large reservoirs in SD. The wind blows alot up here. Lots of sail boats on Lewis and Clark, a few on Francis Case.

I know there are a 100 variables to all of this. My main question again is this...Is the Mac 26M a decent all around boat to learn to sail on? Thanks in advance for any replies. I'll be happy to post more info if asked. I told you this wouldn't be that short. The book Demon of the Sea describes quite well some of my early boating experiences!!!

My apologies for some grammatical errors, I've been sipping some Rum tonite as I ponder my fate.

[richandlori]

Brian,
My situation in life is a bit different (34 yrs old, wife 40, two kids: boy 6 Girl 7) but it may help you in seeing my thought process in purchasing a 2004 26M.

We live in Bakersfield, CA., which is about 2.5 hrs from the coast. Our entire family is ocean oriented, Scuba diving, fishing, and the like and love being on the water. I have always wanted to own a sailboat, but the idea of learning to how to sail on a boat (with the family) with only wind power, except for a small in and out of harbor motor, just would never float . The fact that I can get off the water quickly in an emergency is a plus. As a great example, the family was out sailing off central CA and the wind was gradually getting stronger. It finally got to the point when I decided we were ready to head back to the harbor, but the wind was blowing directly from the harbor, so down came the sails and we motored into the harbor at 11kts.

Size was easy, I wanted the largest boat I could get but still be able to eaisly tow, so the relm of 26ft was ideal and with a family of 4, there would be plenty of room for sleepovers on the water.

There are plenty of used sailboats on the market in the $27-$30 range (which is where the MAc will fall with a 50hp and a few needed options), but I'm not interested in the concept of spending 1/2 the time fixing something up and repairing aged parts. I want to Play, not work when it comes to spare time!

I looked at all the new boats in the Mac size and price range and if you decide you want a NEW sailboat that you can stay the night, weekend, or week on the water, you jsut can't beat the Bang for the buck you get with a Mac.

Last August I made the plunge and found a used 2004 26M. Now 4 months into the boat, I would make the purchase again in a heartbeat. I am learning to sail, the family is having a blast, and I am a saint with the BOSS, and no matter what stage of life you are in (other than in the ground) you can't beat making the Boss happy!!

Regards and best luck in your search and decision.

I would recommend looking around at some 2002+ 26X and 03-04 M's, you can save a decent amount of $ and still get a boat in good condition.

[kmclemore]

Brian, I agree with much of what Richard has said. I am in a similar spot as Rich, with sons 9 & 11, although the wife and I are a fair bit older . However I've been sailing since I was 9 years old, on everything from small dingys to large yachts, so I started my Mac experience with many more years before the mast.

I most recently have owned a Boston Whaler 'Harpoon' sailboat (which I still have), and it is probably one of the best built and finest handling daysailors ever designed, but as an open boat it could only be used for a daytime outing.

So, when I was considering a larger boat I was looking for something the family could sleep on for a weekend (or a week in a pinch) and that would offer the Admiral the privacy and basic amenities she would need to be comfortable. I was also looking for a boat that provided the ability to drag the kids on their inflatable wave-runners and perhaps even water skis, while at the same time offering me the ability to get a 'sailing fix' when I needed one. When I did all the research, there was only one boat that would offer that - and it's the Mac.

In my case, I decided to get a used Mac 26 , although mine is a 1998 - I simply found a good deal and couldn't turn it down. The boat has everything I needed, came with a bunch of mods (saving me many, many hours) and I only needed to do some minor 'fix-up' stuff to get her ship-shape. (Of course, the "Mod Fairy" has still visited us since then, and I've subsequently added several new things, but only because I wanted them, not because they were vital).

You ask if the Mac is easy to learn to sail... well, I won't say it's the easiest to learn to sail, because it is a bit quirky... it doesn't handle like the best of boats either while sailing or powering, and in each mode it has its own unique characteristics unlike any other vessel. However, having said that, the Mac is not at all difficult to learn on, and actually if you learn on the Mac you won't have the expectations of a certain sail performance and style - you'll learn 'fresh' on the Mac - and as such you won't have any old habits to unlearn. As a former power-boater, however, you may be somewhat disappointed in the handling of the Mac, but given that it's a dual-purpose boat you can't want for excellent handling in both modes. Many have said the Mac powers a bit like a 'barge' and I must say I agree... but I'm still happy with the performance, knowing it is doing dual-duty - sailing and powering.

Essentially, the Mac is a compromise vessel - it doesn't handle or perform as well as either a 'true' sailboat or powerboat - but it is one of the very few that does indeed do both, and as such it's a very well-designed niche market boat. You can easily live on board for an extended time with 1-4 people (or 5-6 in a pinch, but you better be VERY good friends), you'll be able to safely navigate in virtually a teacup of water (it's got a ridiculously shallow draft), you can beach anywhere as easily as a Sunfish, the basic boat is built adequately (though some areas do need a bit of 'beefing up' as time and $ permits), and it will give you and your family many happy days of sailing or power-boating.

So, my answer is yes, you can learn to sail in a Mac - hundreds of folks have done so before you. And on the whole, it's the only boat you can buy that gives you what it does for the amount of money spent - all-in-all a very good value, IMHO.

[Jeff S]

That is exactly what I did Brian. I sailed a little when I was young with my parents, but I am learning with the Mac and have learned quite a bit over the first year. I think it is a fine boat on which to learn. The Mac goes sailing more often than many keelboats due to its relative simplicity. I like the versatility of powering and trailering, plus the cabin space is tough to beat in this price range. Another concern of mine is maintenance effort- the Mac is not too bad here, although you can spend a lot of time doing Mods to make your boat better- I'd rather do that then fix things.

I too am a military pilot- AV-8B Harrier out of Cherry Point, NC, what do you fly?

Good luck,
Jeff S

[Jack O'Brien]

Brian wrote:

"I've been sipping some Rum tonite as I ponder my fate."

Welcome to the Club! Do enough of that and you won't care which boat you get.

A Mac M or X is definitely the thing to do. The M is a better sailer. The X may have a better interior layout. You really need to check out the interiors of 1999 and newer Xs and the three layouts of the Ms. MacGregor made a number of improvements to the X in 1999 and has gone through three different interior layouts in the M so far. The X would be better for scuba with the larger stern opening - put a one-rung extension on the ladder.

If money is a concern a used boat is usually a good deal. Ideally, find an X with a small motor that you can sell and get a 90 HP or bigger for it. See the thread about the 90 Tohatsu here somewhere.

Yes, you can learn to sail. Pilots ain't dumb. Macs don't win races but they do circumnavigate (travel in circles) well on rum lines.

[Jim]

I went through a midlife crisis a few years ago, at least thats what I'm going to call it, And bought a new 26X in 1996. Took the first mate daysailing on the west coast on a 33 C&C, and she thought it was a great thing, course there was NO wind. But I ordered my boat on the way home, so alls well that ends well. Although she's not as avid a sailor as I am, she does enjoy the boat. I have all my lines aft an a roller furler as I singlehand most of the time. As been mentioned on here numerous times, the Mac is not the worlds best sailboat, nor is it a grest powerboat, but I dont think you can get a better compromise,roomy interior, decent sized cockpit, wheel steering , and of course you can pick your engine size, within reason of course.I like my X, not fussy on the M, but to each his own.They're a very forgiving boat I have found. If all else fails, wind by Nissan always gets me home.My kids are grown and gone from home, so its just the two of us, partys 6, sleeps 2. Fair winds

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

If you know how to fly you'll find sailing a piece of cake. It's really just two wings, one in the air and one in the water.

We had a smaller sailboat before our 26x, it was a 21' boat and our family of 5 was quickly outgrowing it. It also was a pure sailboat which was fine with me but didn't suit the preferences of my wife and family.

The 26x or 26m lets you keep everyone happy. When there is a favorable wind we sail, I enjoy this and as my boys get older they are also gaining an understanding of sailing. When the wind is wrong or not there at all I don't have to listen to "are we there yet?". The big motor allows us to cover the ground we need to in a reasonable time.

It's not a racing sailboat, but with some practice and skill you will find it sails just fine. Neither is it a speed boat, but again with some practice and skill you will find it motors great as well. It's also a big enough boat to keep up appearances at the marina, you won't be looked at like you just came in on a raft, yet it's size and construction make it a very low cost boat to own. It's design and systems are very simple and straight forward.

A Mac is really all about versitility, and I've yet to find anything that can match it. We bought our X used for under $20k with a good selection of equipment and it's 50 hp motor. A resonable price for a growing family on a budget. For that low cost we got a boat that does many things. It goes out on the lake for play days and pulls inner tubes, knee boards and water skies, yet the same boat took our family of 5 on a 500+ mile 3-1/2 week cruise into Canada last summer. It's taken us to the Seafair logboom with the powerboaters for the Hydroplane races and Blue Angels, and it's taken us to quiet anchorages in the islands tucked in amoungst the cruising sailboats. Because of it's very large interior volume for a 26' boat it is comfortable rain or shine, flat water or rough water, sailing or motoring. For a day, a weekend, or weeks, it provides everything we need.

With it's trailer we pay $0 for moorage and can travel to prime cruising grounds at 70 Mph. Put the motor down and in short order you are in the middle of the most beautiful places where you can cruise like a sedate (slow) sailboat while others spend days just getting there.

It's a great first Sailboat that has so much to offer it may be your last Sailboat.

[waternwaves]

Whether you get an M boat or get a X with a 90, It will take a while to get the other "needs" your other hobbies require........... Having Entered and exited the water with dive gear from the X, it really needs a wider ladder, and a half bar seat to flip down for easy doning and doffing, as well as a set of hangers to hold dive weight belt etc....... Currently I use a bar with 3 hangers and line hooks that fits on the transom mounted mast crutch bracket of the X boat......... reentry into the boat is tricky at best on an X, and you can pretty much forget bringing the wetsuit back in the cabin on boat.........., So a rubbermaid tub and a cockpit shower is a lifesaver... After washing down, I currently hang it to dry off the backstay...

With two dive skins instead of a 6-7 mm suit hanging from the backstay you could probably still do that on your carribean jaunts...., but realisticly getting an X boat ready for diving and playing in the carribean (of course you want that 90 hp on the back since you are going to be loaded heavy with tnaks.......lol) is going to be close to 36K, and you wont be able to get an M boat with all the goodies and dive prep for lesss than 36 K, probably closer to 40K, with tank racks, sails, chute, water tank mods.......(diving uses lots of fresh water) full canvas, barbecue, head, etc...

But for ease of access, I would probably go with the X boat over the M, if I was doing the unwise (diving by myself), With two people passing tanks back up on deck should work over the companionway trunk on an M boat.

As also being a middle aged member on this forum..........
There is no time like the present........ and when I get to 55 I will probably prefer to do my diving and cruising on something larger and slower.........But for people that still have to work for a living..... a Mac at 25mph makes it quite possible to take many dream vacations.

Good luck and enjoy

[Jack O'Brien]

Darren wrote:

"....but realisticly getting an X boat ready for diving and playing in the carribean is going to be close to $36K, ...."

You can do it for a lot less.

$19,500 bought my 2-year-old, virtually unused, 2000 X in October, 2002. This included: Suzuki DF50, SportPilot, 4 sails (two never opened), cockpit cushions, Origo single-burner, big porta-pottie, Garmin GPSMAP 180, VHF, AM/FM/CD with cabin speakers, sail covers, bimini, anchor & chain/line rode, 4 PFDs, grab bar and table, trailer, furler, vang, mast raising gear.

(Close your eyes Duane) And I towed it with a Subaru Outback for two years.

I can't imagine spending $16K on scuba gear. We're snorkling in the Caribbean for a lot less.

[MAC26X]

Go for it Brian. We bought a Mac26X and had sailed only a Sunfish previously. A lot of flying experience transfers well to sailing. The Magregor powersailers are a great compromise boat for a couple or small family. We prefer the X cabin layout. Some will argue that the X is slow, but for that matter, all cruising single hull sailboats are slow. Both the X and M are great trailer sailors - get the largest outboard you can. 50hp is bare minimum.

[Mark Prouty]

IowaBrian,



Excuse me if I exaggerate just a little bit
but I love my Mac. We're such a perfect fit.



My MacGregor 26X is a mighty sailing boat.
Her performance is sure and true.
I've taken it on a little lake and plan on the ocean blue.

I've sailed little racing boats and had lots of fun.
The Mac is as easy to sail-not as fast, but really moves on run.

My sailboat is the fastest in the world, she'll do 32.
If you can find a faster one, I would not doubt you.

The size of motor is something you'll have to decide.
I have a big ass one cause I like the ride.

If there is no wind, I can tow a kiddy toy.
Otherwise, sailing is just quite a joy.

In conclusion, she's a boat you just can't ignore.
What other boat can you sail all day and then drag up on shore?

There is always a controversy between the X and M
I prefer the X cause I like campin.

Buying a Mac 26 is a decision you won't regret.
Besides being a mighty fine boat, she's a chick magnet.



If you still have doubts this boat would be a bummer,
Just take a look at my first Mac Summer.

[Divecoz]

Hi Brian : Audrey and I just bought a new 26M . Yep a week or two ago . In Fact it's still at Bills Boat Yard . I too got the bug after . . . IN FACT finding this forum by accident. We are ,. . we /I hope to Sail it to our home on Cozumel Additionally from everything I have read this should be a great boat and that from some " Real Sailors" even they say this would be a great boat for what I want. I want to take it where-ever when-ever. . . . . not sit on it at the slip Like my boss does on his Erickson 38 at about $100 per foot per month. IMHO and having never sailed this boat I really don't see how you could go wrong. Heck its got a much better resale value than a big Road Bike .

[waternwaves]

Jack, Sorry I didnt clarify,

My figure was for a 99-2001 boat, (maybe 18K) outfitted specifically to support diving. with the brand new Etec90 hp installed (around 8K, almost a necessity, because a boat set up for diving is going to be heavier than a regular mac by FAR!!!!), 36 gallons of aluminum fuel tanks, 12 gallons poly, Microwave, Dinghy and outboard,, bimini, gallons fuel, 4 sails, stainless steel tank racks, Full electronics and charts for the caribean, new boarding ladders, tank winch, 35-50 gallon pressurized water system, hot water showers.., genset........etc.... Trailer second axle, stainless brakes

throw in a dive compressor........... for out island diving, you are looking at 3K there.....

Your basic setup for a pair of divers. that already have their own gear....

self sufficient diving is an expensive addition to a mac, but worth the effort.....


36K is about how it breaks down,..

I should have clarified more......... the MAc is only 18 to 20 K of it,,,,,,the upgrades will set you back some.

And Jack is very right, that you can get a mac nicely outfitted for general crusing for 20K or less.......

I just prefer having all sails available up here, and A bimini/Dodger/enclosure is a necessity.........lol

I would say that almost no-one is going to be happy with a mac with only a 50hp set up for diving.......

I am not going to ask people to trust me on this one.... The divers on this site know how much all that gear weighs.... and how much it is worth having.... Especially hot water showers.........lol in cold water diving....lol

Sorry I didnt clarify the first time......

Thanks for making me clarify Jack, I agree a basic boat can be had for 20K or less that is wonderful for cruising....... I just know what is needed for extened diving in the outer islands......

Good Luck...

Darren

[Norm]

I learned to sail on a Macgregor 25. Apparently so did a lot of other people because the Mac25 made it into the production sailboat hall of fame mainly for introducing more people to sailing than any other boat out there at the time. These boats are very forgiving of newbie mistakes. I sold my 25 and bought a new 2002 26X because I like having a sailboat that is also a cabin cruiser, or a cabin cruiser that is also a sailboat, depending on what I want to do any particular day. My only complaint about the "26M" version is that the cockpit seems more cramped and boarding from the stern is difficult. The interior is fantastic, it's just that we spend most of our time "outdoors" on the boat and I don't ever recall cruising around wishing we had a smaller cockpit:)

You really can't beat a Macgregor for sailing made simple. They are the easiest in the 25/26ft range to trailer, rig, launch and sail.

[Divecoz]

Scuba Gear it's a matter of needs vs. wants and heck you'll never make a Mac into a dive boat anyway shape or form. Plastic tank racks are more than fine however but the rest ??? Add as needed $$$$$$$
NOW about the $8000.00 price for that big Etec ???
I got a price of Over $7000.00 for a Suzuki 50 !!!! Should I be looking at Etec's should I go back and reread everything on this board about Etec's and Merc. Bigfoots ?? I too would like . . .maybe a 70 HP som-tin??
BTW You could save a bit of weight by dropping those AL.80's to 63's depends on just how much down time you need and those 63's toss a lot easier than 80's and 100's believe you me