newbie question: docking without rudders

[gianpaolo]

Hi all
my second hand Mac 26m is still on the trailer due to lack of docking place at my harbor, now it seems there might be a chance, but the place has very shallow water, I expect around 40 cm (around 16 inches for the American friends) or less with the low tide but being the bottom just mud, I could maybe shovel in order to gain a little bit more depth (they call it the strength of desperation when you own a Mac you can't use). The question for the experienced 27 owners is, could the boat steer at idle speed with the rudders and centerboard up? I mean just steering the engine? The good point is that in that place there are no streams and it is mostly well unexposed to waves and winds who could leeway a flat hull while maneuvering.

Thanks in advance
Gianpaolo

[grnwtrcruzn]

I've done this alot on my since I'm a wuss and afraid of nicking the rudders with the prop. It's possible just don't expect very good handling for sharp corners you may have to rock it back and forth to be able to make it and hope for little wind as it loves to grab the side of the mac and push it into really expensive boats....

[jschrade]

Pulling the rudders up will result in less steerage - whether that matters depends on how much you need.

Pulling the centerboard up will allow your nose to easily be blown down wind and also removes the ability to pivot around the centerboard. On my 26M was have forgotten to put the daggerboard down when leaving the dock and I wonder why I couldn't control the nose.

With both up the easiest way to go is to back into the wind.

I use to play lunar lander trying to put my boat on a trailer in the open water (no dock to land on) and it was challenging, you need to keep your speed and momentum up.

With everything down, I can move at a snail's pace and easily control the boat when docking. I am a happier Mac sailor!

Jim

[Doug W]

I'm another newer Mac owner, coming from a speedboat world<--never going back there. At first, I found it difficult to maneuver around docks without fins in the water--usually due to current and wind.

Now, I usually come in with a foot (30cm) to full centerboard along with at least one rudder. With 40cm depth, I'd experiment hanging 20-30cm down to help with keeping the bow in the general intended direction. If you have enough depth for your motor, I'd let at least one rudder hang down as much as you dare. Granted, compared to most on this board, I'm wet behind the ears with my Mac but this is what's been working quite well for me.

With wind/current/tight spaces or an audience, I usually back into spaces since I seem to have more control. I rarely have to deal with depths less than 120cm at docks. I creep at slow speeds around docks and other boats; yet, fast enough to maintain maneuverability.

Even when trailering, I'll come in with 1/2 centerboard down and a rudder down. As my bow passes the goal post, I pull the centerboard up the rest of the way. Again, I tend to creep onto the trailer in slow motion.

Seems that every docking experience is different for me even at the same marina. I like to cruise up and down marina's as an exercise in perfecting proficiency in handling my Mac in varied conditions and quarters--either that, or I am subconsciously strutting my precious around all the other boats...she's blue afterall.... Good Luck!!!
...Doug

[parrothead]

Gianpaolo,

I hope that you get to use your soon, but I would caution that 16" of water really isn't enough. That sounds like the extreme low tide conditions we had at our first marina back in 2006-7. The hull itself draws 12", and you really need another 12" to be able to put the outboard motor all the way down [rudders all the way down requires 42"].

Jim is right that right that if you can't drop the daggerboard somewhat, the best course of action is to back up. You can accomplish this in just enough water to immerse the coolant intake on the motor, and wherever the motor pulls [in reverse], the hull will follow.

As for making sharp turns at low speed, I actually find that works better with the daggerboard down at least 24" and the rudders up. We back into our slip, which requires a 180 degree turn, and we're able to accomplish that in the smallest space with the rudders up. If you have enough depth to drop the board farther, you can just about spin the boat in its own length, if necessary.

Doug

[DaveB]

Gianpaolo,
You have a Daggerboard not a centerboard. In shallow waters you can raise the rudders to depth of engine prop. when tilted to give you stearage. I have a X with a centerboard and leave it down about 8 inches to give stearage but the centerboard has a lot more length and volume than the width of a dagger board raised 8 inches below hull.
Keep the daggerboard down enough to clear bottom and raise rudders as stated and you will have control at Idle or a bit more.
Dave

Hi all
my second hand Mac 26m is still on the trailer due to lack of docking place at my harbor, now it seems there might be a chance, but the place has very shallow water, I expect around 40 cm (around 16 inches for the American friends) or less with the low tide but being the bottom just mud, I could maybe shovel in order to gain a little bit more depth (they call it the strength of desperation when you own a Mac you can't use). The question for the experienced 27 owners is, could the boat steer at idle speed with the rudders and centerboard up? I mean just steering the engine? The good point is that in that place there are no streams and it is mostly well unexposed to waves and winds who could leeway a flat hull while maneuvering.

Thanks in advance
Gianpaolo

[NiceAft]

Gianpaolo,

Dave B said:

In shallow waters you can raise the rudders to depth of engine prop. when tilted to give you stearage.

You can do this, but be aware that the closer the rudders are to being parallel with the boat, the more leverage they exert on the hinges they are attached to. Sudden turns of the wheel can cause dammage. Be also aware, that if you do this, your is now longer. If you back into a slip, you can not go back as far.

With an empty ballast tank, you should be able to float in 40 cm , but you are not going to have an easy time of trying to steer with rudders and board up. If there is a breeze, as they say in Brooklyn, FAWGETABOUTIT

Ray

[gianpaolo]

thanks all for the precious tips, I'll make treasure, I'll be down there at the harbor during the weekend, I'll probe the place during the low tide and check for the depth and for the nature of the bottom

[Boblee]

You definitely are better off with both ruders and board down but crikey unless the wind is blowing a gale or you have a fierce cross current with a shallow or rocky bottom it can be done easily it just takes a bit of thought.
This comes from someone who has been grounded many times in water where you really shouldn't get off to push (bitey and stingy things), we have anchored in plenty of shallow places with a mud bottom but if you are anchoring and have a dinghyto get to shore and back, no problem, if there are no hard thingies on the bottom let the mac dry out on low tide.
Part of the attraction of the Mac is the ability to beach where others can't and move off on the tide change.

[Y.B.Normal]

I usually dock with the rudders up and the daggerboard down only about 6". I keep my boat on a river where there are rocks and dredge material to hit.

As a former powerboater like myself, you shouldn't have a problem docking. Just dock it like your old powerboat.
I like to put the bow into the seawall, have the Admiral throw a line around the post, then put it in reverse and back the
stern into the seawall. Or, you can back the stern in, throw a line around the post and put it in forward to bring the bow into the pier. Or you can just dock it like a normal powerboat. Google "Jack Klang" for some great docking/line handling demos as well as great sail handling tips.

ENJOY your new toy!

Dale
26M Y.B.Normal - "Not a normal powerboat, not a normal sailboat; and we ain't normal either."

[yukonbob]

First time i took ours out i dind't even think to put the rudders or the db down, and had no problems at all. I am however going to try spinning around the db this spring, great idea! I did try powering with the db 1/3 down in 3' waves to see if it would help with control...did notice some healing coming off the top of the waves that got my heart racing the first few times, but it came about pretty quick. Ended up pulling it up after a bit. Overall a great first outing.

[nedmiller]

We carried 2 long oars for times when we get into shallow water. The Admiral takes one oar and I take the other on the other side of the boat and we use them as paddles or if the water gets really thin, to push against the bottom. With motor and all boards up, you can push your Mac through amazingly shallow water since you can put your weight partially on the oars and take it off the boat.
Take real care if backing in very shallow water since you will be leading with your prop and it will be the first thing to make contact!
SILK

[NiceAft]

I like the idea about the oars.

The other posts I either don't agree with, or they don't pertain to the problem at hand.

There is only an estimated 4" clearance in the water. Dropping the daggerboard down 1/3 or dropping it 6" will ground the boat It does not take much wind to move a Mac with an empty ballast and all boards up. I don't understand the "unless the wind is blowing a gale " "it can be done easily". It really does not take much to blow a Mac sideways. That's why we have discussed so often on this forum the importance of daggerboard down, and at least one rudder down. If the wind is blowing towards the dock, that makes things easier, but if the other way

Ray

[tek]

I seem to be the exception to the rule here as I always bring my in with all fins up. Best place to launch near us is shallow with a lot of shoals and we are the only non-fishing boat that launches there thanks to the macs ability to launch in shallow water. Very little current there, but there is often crosswind. I've never had a problem steering. No problem bringing it into fuel docks at marinas with tides and currents either.

I do think the choice of engine and prop might make the difference in manueverability. I use a Yamaha Dual Thrust (similar to Mercury Bigfoot) that has a really nice bite in the water.

After reading all the recommendations about boards down, I'd conclude that it depends on how your particular mac is set up and how it handles.

-Edward

[yukonbob]

2nd that. three less things to think about.