Life expectancy of a sail?

[Finn]

My boat, Chapter 2, is parked in Marina del Rey. I have a standard main sail that is covered when it is not on the water and I have a roller furled genoa that was not originally covered. I got new the boat in June 2007. In May 2008, a 6 foot tear developed along the genoa leech. The sail maker indicated that it was caused by the sun light’s effect on the rolled up sail. He repaired it by adding a 6” of material on one side of the sail and a 12” white sunbrella UV protective material to the other side so that the sail would be protected when rolled up.

Well, a new 5 foot tear has developed along the stitched seam of 6” patch and I’m not sure that it would pay to have the sail repaired again.

My first question: I see many other boats in Marina del Rey with uncovered sails. Are those sails replaced on a yearly basis?

My second question: Should I expect to replace my sails every year?

My third question: If I replace the genoa and add either a windsock or a UV protective strip, should I expect the sail to last longer?

My fourth question: Would a more expensive (heavier material) last longer and thus be more cost effective in the long run?

I would appreciate your help and suggestions very much.

...and happy Holidays.

Finn

[Terry]

My first question: I see many other boats in Marina del Rey with uncovered sails. Are those sails replaced on a yearly basis?

My second question: Should I expect to replace my sails every year?

My third question: If I replace the genoa and add either a windsock or a UV protective strip, should I expect the sail to last longer?

My fourth question: Would a more expensive (heavier material) last longer and thus be more cost effective in the long run?

I would appreciate your help and suggestions very much.

...and happy Holidays.

Finn

First Question, the uncovered sails could have a white sacrificial UV strip on the headsail that you do not notice.
Second question, I sure hope not, very expensive.
Third question, yes, absolutely.
Fourth question, I think so, that is why I am budgeting for a KH 5.4oz MuscleHead for a new Mainsail. They also sell matching headsails for this main and if I had the $$ I'd get those too. My OEM mainsail is pretty much bagged out and finished with, but I have been using it since summer of '03 so I got lots of use from it. My oem '03 Jib is still good but the oem '04 genoa is starting to show some wear but it gets more use. If I had the resources, I'd have several different sets of sails and spinnakers too.

[Hardcrab]

Finn,
Sorry to hear about the new rip. Bummer.
I know that many, if not most, Macs at MDR all come from the same dealer.
I do not know why the dealer does not usually sell UV protection to go with a foresail, just the mainsail.
It seems that only a handfull of Macs there use foresail protection.
Most likely, those who do have rotted their sails beforehand and have seen the light.
Sadly, it looks like most of the rest haven't seen the water in a long time, and don't have a clue that their foresail might be toast.

I had to replace my Factory Jib with less than six months of UV exposure uncorrected by the PO.
Virtually a brand new sail (5 uses in total) "rotted" while rolled on a furler with the mast down and furler bungeed to the mast.
No sock or UV strip, and the rotting was exactly only what was exposed to sunlight while in the "roll".

I replaced it with a new factory genny and a sock a little over two years ago.
The mast is always raised and the sock and mainsail cover is always used in the MDR lot.
There is no damage to either sail.
I'm a firm believer in the "sock" for the genny.
I've never had a UV strip sewn on, but I'd think it must be somewhat less than ideal for sail shape, even if it's not measurable.
The extra work involved with using the sock is a moot point for me.

I've heard negative reports that somehow the "socked" genny can flap in the wind until the forestay fails and every thing comes crashing down.

In my limited two year experience with a "sock", my hard-headed answer is "Bullsheet".

See you around MDR sometime.

[NiceAft]

In September, near the end of our sailing season, I developed a tear on the Genoa similar to yours. The sail did not have any UV protection. When I purchased my M, I did ask my dealer about having it, and he said don't bother. I know better now.

I am not going to repair the sail because I feel that the integrity of the fabric might be compromised enough to not allow a favorable repair. I am ordering a new Genoa. This one has UV protection when it is furled.


Ray

[dennisneal]

Finn,

We keep our boat on our driveway, so the mast and Genoa sail are horizontal most of the time.

During our trip to Catalina our Genoa sail developed a ten-foot rip along the leech edge. After we brought it home, a closer look disclosed that the sail was "rotted" where it was exposed to the sun. We bought a new Genoa sail and also made a sock from genuine sunsail material that I bought from a fabric shop. I'll share the design, if you wish.

I would not leave sails unprotected in the sun.

[delevi]

Yes, absolutely cover your sails... sail cover for the main and UV strip or sock for you headsail. Otherwise the sails will be scorched by the sun. Replacing sails every year is certainly not something considered normal. New quality sails will not only last longer, but will dramatically increase performance. I blew out my sails after a year and a half. Partly becuase I sail in high winds frequetnly, and partly due to the learning curve.... luffing the sails in those high winds. My new performance sails are now nearly 3 years old and still good as new. They really make a world of difference in performance. Two things will destory your sails: 1. prlonged exposure to sunlight 2. sailing. #1 can be avoided with sail covers, thus your sail's physical life will always be longer than its acceptable performance life. #2...the only thing you can do here is minimize how much you luff/flogg your sails. The heavier/higher-quality the sail, the more it can take, the longer it will last, the less it will stretch over time and the better it will retain its shape over time. Lighter cloth is designed for light air and will not last long when used in heavy air. Heavier cloth will last longer, period. It will give better performance in heavy air but a marignally lower performance in light air. Hope this helps.

Leon

[pokerrick1]

I had my 2006 M at MDR for 3 years in basin A.

The reason Mike Inmon doesn't usually sell the UV protection for foresails is that it is not cost effective for the buyer - - - check it out - - - not worth it - - - I don't have a price list in front of me but I had the same decision to make and I went for no UV protection.

Part of the problem might be that the Genoa hits the mast when it is full out and you are tacking - - - I think that, also, weakens the Genoa, especially at MDR where you have to tack all the way out of the channel. I've had my boat in real strong sun since it was new - - - 3 years at MDR and 6 months in San Felipe (Baja) (not THAT'S strong sun), and my sails both need replacing now - - - they are so bad I've stopped using sail tape and started using duct tape

Absolutely better sails will last longer I was examining the prospect of a better mainsail with Mike - - - for about $700 - - - from a company in Monterey, CA, which had sail slugs and reefing points, when I left MDR and went to Mexico - - so I never bought it. KHE was selling new, stock mains a while ago for around $200 - - - I should have bought 3 of those - - -oh well.

Rick

[Hardcrab]

Hey there Pokerrick, how ya doin'?
Whats the latest on The Nuts?
Is she being repaired?

I have a hard time following Mikes logic.

My $300 factory jib rotted in six months.
My sunbrella sock cost $150.
(I can't speak for the sew on type).
I've had the sock for 2+ years, and should easy triple that, I'd guess.
The sail is fine.

2 years worth of replacement factory jibs would be $1,200 or $2,000 for factory gennys based on the limited but direct experience seen by Chapter Two, Sea Eagle, and Cease-fire.

Whats not cost effective, I wonder?

[AWKIII]

UV rays are not the problem here.

Most failures like this are due to rotting of the stitching thread. Salt air and water create mold. It can be visible (usually small dark spots) or not.

Sails should be cleaned at least once a year. They don't have to be sent to a sailmaker or repair house.

Simply lay them out on your lawn or diveway on a warm, sunny day. All you need is a bucket of warm water, mild liquid kitchen soap and a brush.

Simply dip the brush in the soapy water and scrub all areas where there is stitching. Also scrub any areas on the sail where there is dark spotting and dirt. When finished, hose off the sail completely and allow it to completely dry. Do not bag the sails or re-furl while the stitching thread is still damp.

Although a pain in the butt, this process will keep your sails looking new and last a lot longer.

Regards,

Art

[Hardcrab]

AWKIII,
You describe a failure mode that was not the case for me.
The Dacron cloth itself became very brittle and would crumble with almost zero effort, and I assume UV to be the cause.
I suppose the cloth itself could have been defective, I don't know.
A new sail and a sock seems to "fix" it for me.

For example, think of how newsprint would get if left outdoors for several years.
Yellowed, very "brittle" and old looking.
It won't fold, just break and crumble to small pieces and dust.

Except for the yellowing, my jib can be described in just the same way, but only at the places exposed on the roll, and then in only six months.
Perhaps I should add that my mast is fully rigged and standing (and UV covered) 24/7/365.

The remaining 95% (?) of the sail is still in perfect, almost new shape.

Stitching is not involved with my particular "failure", IMHO.

[delevi]

Art,

I inquired about cleaning my sails and both the reps at Quantum and Pineapple told me not to do it. Cleaning a sail, according to these guys, will reduce its lifespan. From what I read about mildew on laminated sails, it is nothing more than a cosmetic problem and should not affect the sail at all. Perhaps Dacron is different, but you are talking about stitching which should be the same deal for either sail cloth.... not sure I follow.

Leon

[pokerrick1]

Hey there Pokerrick, how ya doin'?
Whats the latest on The Nuts?
Is she being repaired?

Hi Bill;

I'm fine - - - playing more poker now with these Las Vegas locals who "THINK" they can play.

"The Nuts" has not been repaired because I have no place to sail it (Lake Mead is inconvenient and has problems - - water levels, zebra mussels, etc.) and I am 'thinking" of selling it and maybe getting something bigger when I am at a spot where I could use it (like MDR). It sits on it's trailer in storage for the first time since it was new

Hope you guys are well.

Rick

[AWKIII]

Hi Leon.

I am talking about Dacron. You will not have the same kind of problems the people are experiencing here with laminate sails as the thread is much different.

Quantum and Pineapple are certainly entitled to their opinions but I disagree. If they were right there would be no lofts making a killing on cleaning them nor would you find the myriad of sail cleaning products at places like Worst Marine.

Once a year at the end of the season is fine.

I bet you don't see the Quantum boys sailing around the bay with dirty, mildewed rags on their boat.

Regards,

Art

[AWKIII]

Hardcrab.

If this sail is less than a year old, then you need to get in touch with your dealer pronto.

The sail should either be fixed or replaced. Considering the sail has failed twice now, I think the latter is warranted.

May simply be a bad batch of fabric. It happens.

Art

[Scott]

My 97 Mac Doyle sails were still on the boat when I sold it this year. Always covered and they still looked good. I did have a tear in the Genny but it was from chafing against the extrusion on the furler.