interesting steering issue

[Andy26M]

I just returned from 2 weeks of boat camping in the Adiraindamps (also known as the Adirondack Mountains) and had this to share:

One day as I was sailing/motoring around the lake, I noted the steering getting a bit stiffer. Then we were sailing for a while and I had my Dad on the helm while I handled the sails. When returning to the campsite, i took the helm back and it was a LOT stiffer, then it bound up completely. I checked and did not find any foreign objects binding up down below (26M so you have to crawl deep into the aft berth to really look at the steering). Got it back to the anchor by disconnecting the motor from the steering and driving it with the boat hook and a bungy cord.

The following day I commenced troubleshooting, but couldn't find anything outwardly wrong - so I was assuming that the cable was messed up (feelings of dread). I decided to unbolt the end of the push-pull steering rod from the rudder post and verify that the rudders themselves were free, as well as figuring out if the steering felt any different with zero load.

Lo and behold, when i went to remove that bolt it was beyond tight - I was almost afraid I was going to break it (or my hand) trying to get it loose! It's a 9/16ths stainless bolt with aircraft nut (and washers) that is a staple on the entire boat, nothing I've changed out and nothing I've even ever removed or messed with. Once I loosened it up so that the push-pull rod could again pivot at that juncture, the steering was instantly back to normal - free and fully functional.

Has anyone else had issues with large, stainless aircraft nuts magically tightening up like this?

Also, other than the slide-tube at the push-pull end, is there anything in the standard steering system that is supposed to be lubricated? I could not find anything inside the helm box that looked like a way to lube the cable or gear box at that end.

- Andy

[c130king]

Andy,

Welcome to the broken steering club. Read my post below...lots of similarity. I even have pictures of my boat hook & bare foot steering method...wasn't smart enough at the time to use a bungy cord...but the weather was nice and didn't have too far to go. I physically straddled the engine to steer the boat with my knees/legs while backing into my slip.

Steering Broke

Unfortunately I stripped the rack & pinion gears completely and my steering rod was completely frozen so I replaced everything.

But, that particular bolt you are speaking of was a %$&*^$%*@ to get off. I eventually had to use my army boating buddy...since he was much stronger than this puny USAF puke...and he completely stripped the misaligned threads but in the end we got the bolt off. Replaced it with something very similar from WM...don't remember exactly what it was...I used several washers on the reinstall but I didn't tighten it down very much...I am thinking a little loose is better than a little tight in that situation.

The instructions with my new Teleflex SS-141 had words to the effect that the steering rod (where it comes out of the steeering cable) should be lubed periodically...don't remember the particulars at this time.

Good Luck,
Jim

[Hardcrab]

Andy,
You have described EXACTLY what my steering did. The pivot bolt from the cable to the starboard arm tightened up. All by itself.
I too had the same dread by thinking the worst before beginning to inspect, and the first logical place to start troubleshooting turned out to be the problem area.

Be advised that you might need to find a happy medium tightness because with the nut to "loose", my steering now won't stay put without a hand on the wheel.
I did lube the pivot point, but I haven't gone back to tweak it to get "just enough" drag to keep the wheel straight.
I plan on double -nutting when I get it right, or coming up with a better pivot.

[delevi]

Didn't have this happen, but I make a point of checking the steering linkages every 6 months or so... checking for appropriate tightness and spraying with silocone. Link to starboard rudder arm, push-pull rod, bolts for linkage bar to port rudder & link to engine steering bar. I believe the cable on the M is quite strong... based on having broken rudder and SS rudder bracket during a broach in 45kts wind. No damage to steering, however. Should work fine with some preventative maintenance.

Leon

[K9Kampers]

Andy26M -

What lake(s) were you and / or have you been on with your Mac in the Adirondacks?

[puggsy]

I'll just about bet that the bolt was upright with the nut on the top. If so,, vibration will, over time, cause the nut to work its way down, regardless of the nylon insert [ locking] . A similar problem is experienced with bronze or chromed tank filler tops. The flat ones that finish up level with the deck and are undone by a two prong tool. I am sure we have all seen them. They will vibrate tighter and tighter if initially done up tight. The rule is to NOT do them up tight but to smear the thread with vaseline and the groove once it is done up. But thanks for the reminder...will now proceed to treat all my steering points with ANTI-SIEZE...much better than grease...
Puggsy

[David Mellon]

This is an interesting problem, perhaps we should all consider using a crown nut and cotter pin instead of the nylock nut. Maybe one of our resident dealers can get just the right stuff together, predrill the bolt and let us all buy from them. Losing steering is a very dangerous event, I was on a friends twin screw power boat when the wheel locked up, it was a problem under the dash. Despite high winds we managed to get near the dock by varying the engine thrusts and a friendly boater on the dock took our painter. Lake Mead can develop some serious weather in just a few minutes but we lucked out and got in just as the warning lights started flashing all over the lake.

[Andy26M]

Jim (c130king) -

Yes, I saw your post and thought it was funny that we both used essentially the same method to emergency steer. That disconnecting link for the engine from BWY continues to be one of my favorite mods. Separate note: you should NEVER admit to finding a good use for Army guys! We Navy and Air Force folks must stick together vs. the Black Knights (I'm USNA '86)!!

K9kampers -

My family has been camping on Indian lake since I was a child - officially it is Indian Lake Islands Public Campground, run by NYS DEC. I think this was our 36th consecutive year, though I personally missed quite a few due to my Navy career. I've also camped out on the Lake George Islands. In both cases it is "boat access only" camping, i.e. you cannot drive your car to the campsite; but rather you load gear into your boat and take it out. This makes the camping more primitive and there is no one to entertain you but yourselves, but it also makes it more remote and peaceful, especially at night. Lake George is a marked lake, i.e. it has buoys and navaids, but it is also very, very busy and crowded. Indian Lake is unmarked, except for a few clorox bottles that campers occasionally tie to submerged rocks, so it is not real popular to folks with big boats - my Mac26 was definitely the biggest boat on the entire lake.

- Andy

[SailDog]

Jim (c130king) -

... Separate note: you should NEVER admit to finding a good use for Army guys! We Navy and Air Force folks must stick together vs. the Black Knights (I'm USNA '86)!!... - Andy

Oh, an opportunity for my "Joint Operations Joke."

The reason joint operations are so hard is because the services all speak different languages, take the word, "secure."

Tell the Marine Corps to "secure" a building and they'll call in Close Air Support and Artillery Fire and assault the buiding with Fire and Maneuver.

Tell the Army to "secure" a building and they'll put up concertina and a guard shack and check ID's for everyone coming and going.

Tell the Navy to "secure" a building and they'll go through, lock all the doors and turn out the lights.

Tell the Air Force to "secure" a building and they'll go down the street to the savings and loan and take out a 30 year mortgage at 8.5%

Just kidding, the Air Force always had the best Club's and Q's that's why they were our favorite x-c destinations.

-Pat 9 yrs in AV-8Bs.

And to keep my post on topic... Puggsy, What's ANTI-SIEZE? Vasiline? I tried working my cable loose with WD-40 for about 20min, but that was no joy. It seemed to work initially but then it siezed up worse than before. So, I'm still trying to decide if I should replace the Detmar rack and cable with "new" old stock. Or just bite the bullet and start drilling holes for the Teleflex SS141-8 that I bought when it looked like a "bolt on" in the store. I'm thinking that based on the post record of the Detmar, it's about a five year part at best. Has anybody had a failure of the SS141? Luckily(?) I'm on a trip all this week and don't have to decide until I get home on Sunday.

[Highlander]

When I converted my mac19 from tiller to wheel steering I went with teleflex dual rack & pinion , Detmar parts is less than half the cost of Teleflex & you's get what you's pay for !!!, I would not buy them ?

J

[waltpm]

Stainless steel nuts and bolts tend to gall very easily when tightened. If they do, they can become impossible to remove short of sawing them off. I always use anti- seize on them to prevent this.

[atzserv]

SailDog,

anti-sieze is a product made by permatex that is recommended for spark plugs, and anything you don't wnat to bind up badly, It is a pretty cool product. I took off my prop and there was a silverlike grease on the shaft and spline, I went to the marine store asking for prop grease and they sold me a tube, I put on my new prop using the marine store grease. After getting the anti-sieze product for my spark plugs I am pretty sure it was this anti-sieze on my prop when i removed it. I have a Honda 50 and the first time I changed the plugs I got the same problem I had in the late 60's with a Honda motorcycle, one of the plugs didn't want to thread easily, finally messed up the honda motorcycle, being 17 and all ,and always remembered the problem.

I just noticed when I turn my wheel to port it is stiffer than when to starboard, I have had the push pull off of the rudder bracket and may have overtightened. I will take a look and use this antisieze product if the stiffness is coming from that location. Once you see it's purpose you will want to keep a tube around for specific situations.

Hope this helps,

Gary