rudder uphaul lever

[Highlander]

Why not just add a few cheep blocks & make a 2-1 or even a 3-1 pulley system

J

Because 2 x zero or 3 x zero is still zero.

Don't know where u learned ur math But 2-1 or 3-1 DOES NOT equal 2X0 or 3X0 is still Zero where u getting that from !! this is very simple math Not rocket science This is a very simple method of extracting the upper leverage advantage U do have a mainsheet on ur boat & a vang

These brkts u r looking for r readily avail. on the market I have two on my boat for another mod & two more in my shop for another mod also, I'll take a pic of them & measure them for u

J

[Crikey]

Dave, do you have stern seats?

R.

[seahouse]

I think the discrepancy in opinion here is from the vector position in the diagramme. As shown, the rudders would not raise at all.

In the actual rudders the force arrow is to the right of the pivot point, not in line with it.

-B.

[DaveC426913]

Don't know where u learned ur math But 2-1 or 3-1 DOES NOT equal 2X0 or 3X0 is still Zero

Yes it does.

A force multiplier (such as a 2:1 or 3:1 or 100:1) will only multiply an existing torque. If you cannot get any torque then multiplying it by 2 or 3 still gets you zero.

If you look at my diagram, you will see that my rudder lines are directly in line with the rudder pivot. No matter how hard you pull on them, no matter what mechanical advantage you apply, you still get virtually no lift. So a multiplier is virtually useless.

Now, this is the worst case scenario. Yes, the line is not exactly along the pivot all the time. Yes, I can move it around. Yes, I can reach over the stern, to change the angle of my pulling, but several things about that are bad:
1] I am sometimes doing this while underway. Very hard to do with one hand while facing forward.
2] Hauling that thing while leaning over the stern to get a better angle is REALLY hard on the back. At the best of times, hauling my rudders is one of the most strenuous tasks on my entire boat.
3] For the Admiral to do this, all effort and risk factors are doubled.

These brkts u r looking for r readily avail. on the market I have two on my boat for another mod & two more in my shop for another mod also, I'll take a pic of them & measure them for u
J

What? What are you saying? These things already exist??

[DaveC426913]

I think the discrepancy in opinion here is from the vector position in the diagramme. As shown, the rudders would not raise at all.

In the actual rudders the force arrow is to the right of the pivot point, not in line with it.

-B.

That is my point. in the actual rudders on my boat, if I pull from from a more comfortable position, the line is actually under the pivot and I am pulling the rudder down.

To get any kind of good angle I have to lean out, off-balance and kill my back.

[Crikey]

Dude, er Dave .... That was my point about the stern seats. They overhang somewhat and provide you with an escape from that vector dilemma.
Don't ask about Highlanders math calculations - the last time I asked him how many fingers I was holding up he gave me a wrong answer!

[Highlander]

Highlander wrote:
These brkts u r looking for r readily avail. on the market I have two on my boat for another mod & two more in my shop for another mod also, I'll take a pic of them & measure them for u
J
What? What are you saying? These things already exist??

Oh Yes they do if u stop my vid @ the 32sec frame u can see one under my stern rail seat ! I can try to take a pic of the ones laying in my shop if I have time tomorrow with the measurements they do not have the tang on them but that could be very easy to do seach for a tang already made with the option of adding it by either welding it or bolting it on

J

[Boblee]

Well it's got me buggered unless the rudders are way different on an to a I just can't see the problem, sure when the rudders are in the fully down position there appears to be little leverage, I can't put mine down to check as it's on the hard but looks like the lifting point would be 2-3" aft of the pivot point max and the line pull then goes forward making it less.
When you release the line the rudders naturally swing back slightly unless you are reversing or have a strong aft current and they still swing back anyway, I do know with the 2-1 blocks I don't lean anywhere just a straight pull from under the stern rails and for sure the wife doesn't and she can lift them easily, 3-1 would make it a even easier but certainly not necessary.
I can't remember as it's not an issue but maybe it takes a slight tug to get the rudder to kick back a bit but I do lift them slowly usually to let them drain.
Easy way to test is grab a small block and try it but as just a single roller first be a lot less mucking around and way easier especially once they leave the water especially if still full.
IMHO there is just no point in using the lever which is why I was originally confused with what you were using it for.

[Highlander]

here u r these brkt's r about the same size u r looking for they fit over that 1 1/4" tube up-right in my pics that is part of my rear arch traveler back-stay set-up
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee20 ... 0008-1.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee20 ... 010004.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee20 ... 010001.jpg

I took these when I was making that arch it was still in the early development stage @ that time, I have or should have two more sets of these brkts left to be used on a future mod "retractable swim platforms"
will give u the measurements tomorrow when I get home
If u want to get as many mods done as I do on the cheap as I do , u have to be prepared to do a lot of seaching on the net & the marine flea markets which does use up a lot of time & be willing to wait for stuff to go on sale & be willing if u r able to make alot of the stuff urself , hope this helps u out
PS u can also see my 3-1 rudder pull-up conversion which works great on my large heavy solid IDA Sailor rudders
J

[DaveC426913]

here u r these brkt's r about the same size u r looking for they fit over that 1 1/4" tube up-right in my pics that is part of my rear arch traveler back-stay set-up
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee20 ... 0008-1.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee20 ... 010004.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee20 ... 010001.jpg

I took these when I was making that arch it was still in the early development stage @ that time, I have or should have two more sets of these brkts left to be used on a future mod "retractable swim platforms"
will give u the measurements tomorrow when I get home
If u want to get as many mods done as I do on the cheap as I do , u have to be prepared to do a lot of seaching on the net & the marine flea markets which does use up a lot of time & be willing to wait for stuff to go on sale & be willing if u r able to make alot of the stuff urself , hope this helps u out
PS u can also see my 3-1 rudder pull-up conversion which works great on my large heavy solid IDA Sailor rudders
J

Oh I see. You're using those brackets for a different purpose, but I could use them for my purpose. Yeah, that might work.

But even more interesting, you're using blocks attached to the underside of your party seats. That is a VERY intriguing mod. When I'm down at the boat tomorrow, I'll check that out. That might work for me.

[DaveC426913]

Dude, er Dave .... That was my point about the stern seats. They overhang somewhat and provide you with an escape from that vector dilemma.

Oh. you were suggesting what Highlander is showing in his pics. Attaching the uphaul to the stern seats. Hmmmmm.

I'll get back to you tomorrow night after a visit to the dock.

[seahouse]

A third embodiment of the invention would involve a lever, attached to the tansom by a hinge, and the other end to the uphaul line 8" or so from the rudder. It would hold the uphaul line out from the transom so that you would get a better purchase on the leverage when pulling the line up. It would have to be the right length and position, and would be vertical and flush when the rudders are fully retracted. It would never enter the water, so no drag is added.
- B.

[Highlander]

Here's ur brkt's & yes they r SS
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 5fe2c1.jpg

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... d44899.jpg

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 9aeca7.jpg

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 1215fc.jpg

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 5189e9.jpg

J

[DaveC426913]

Here's ur brkt's & yes they r SS
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 5fe2c1.jpg

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... d44899.jpg

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 9aeca7.jpg

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 1215fc.jpg

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 5189e9.jpg

J

Those are exactly the right shape, but I am not sure they're the right size. If you look at my diagram again, you'll see the two critical dimensions are the distance from the hole (upper right). They must be 1 1/2" in two directions. It looks like yours are a fair bit less than that.

[BOAT]

Hey, I watched the Highlander movie - did you notice that his wind spinner thing is on his aft?? Will that work with an auto pilot?