Rotating mast on the M - Elimination?

Matt19020 · Post by **Matt19020** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 5:02 pm

I was out and had a perfect day of sailing but there was the issue of the mast not rotating the way it should, we had about 10 knots of wind. I know my rig is a little tight and this is probably the reason (I will address this when I pull the boat).
My sailing company today was my brother-in-law who is a structural engineer and suggested that over the winter he could size a bearing up using a tapered cup design and a race (if I understood him correctly). to assist in the rotation.
But my questions are:
Would the trouble in doing this type of mod be worth the benifit?

Is there really a great benifit to the rotating mast on a "M"? or could it be rigged to stay stationary and accept the sail charecteristics that comes with a non-rotating mast as is the case in most sailboats?

Paul S · Post by **Paul S** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:18 pm

There is a bearing modification available. I personally question the reliability, as the pressure on the bearing will no always be equal, potentially causing premature failure. I know there have been a couple reports here about it. Your mast will be a hair taller, requiring adjustment of the standing rigging, roller furler maybe too

I have pinned my mast for downwind sailing, for trailering etc. The rotating mast is good for about .5-1 kt or so (my unofficial, unscientific gps observations)

If it is TOO tight, it won't rotate. Also I have noticed if the mainsheet is too tight (heavy wind) etc, it may pull down enough to resist rotating...either wait for a gust to turn it, go up on deck and rotate it. Someone posted a comment on running a line down either side of the boat to 'pull' it over.

If your rig is too tight, it could also cause similar problems

BigNige · Post by **BigNige** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:09 am

Following other suggestions on this forum I have tied a length of 3/16 braided line on both sides from the shackle that attaches the boom vang to the mast base then run it through the loops on the nearby stanchions and tied it back to the base of the stanchion near the winches. A loop formed in the line just forard of the rear stanchion (just using a bowline) gives me some purchase and I just give it a tug if necessary (light winds usually). I am just waiting to get a couple of blocks from Westmarine (Model No. 153734) to reduce friction somewhat.

Paul S · Post by **Paul S** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:54 am

hasn't botherd me too much.. in lite wind. I just go up on deck and manually rotate it. Heavier wind, it will eventually rotate.. some sailkote on the washers every so often seems to help.

beene · Post by **beene** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:09 am

Just grab the main sheets between the boom and the traveler and pull aft.

Only needed in light winds, otherwise the wind is strong enough to push the main over and the mast rotates on her own.

G

jetta01 · Post by **jetta01** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:16 am

Spray a bunch of sailkote or wd-40 on those washers at the base and it will rotate. Those washers just start to rust, which causes nicks and burrs in the washers, which causes the mast not to rotate smoothly. Spray them before each outing and it should be fine.

tangentair · Post by **tangentair** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:46 am

Pretty good thread on this problem
http://macgregorsailors.com/phpBB/viewt ... highlight=

baldbaby2000 · Post by **baldbaby2000** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:15 pm

I think mine uses 3 bronze washers. Going to a bearing sounds good but I don't think you'd have the reliability as with the washers.

The rotation does make the boat go faster.

Daniel

pokerrick1 · Post by **pokerrick1** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:16 pm

What BigNige said!

I only use one line, which goes from the toe of the bottom of the mast and is led back to the cockpit, and with that I can rotate the mast either way when necessary - - - usually in very light winds - - - and yes the rotating mast is an ABSOLUTE benefit and excellent upgrade for the Mac - - - gives me 1/2 to 1 kt more speed, depending upon the wind strength.

Rick

Catigale · Post by **Catigale** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:42 am

Im interested in the magnitude of this effect. Has anyone tried, close hauled, leaving the mast pointing forward, trimming for speed, then letting the mast rotate, retrimming the main/traveller and comparing the two speeds?

0.5kt difference maybe?

Make sure your motor is up!!

baldbaby2000 · Post by **baldbaby2000** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:54 am

Im interested in the magnitude of this effect. Has anyone tried, close hauled, leaving the mast pointing forward, trimming for speed, then letting the mast rotate, retrimming the main/traveller and comparing the two speeds?

I did this once in about 4 or 5 knots of wind and it seemed to be about 10% improvement to let the mast go from center to normal rotation. I think this was on a close reach or a beat. It's hard to keep it in the center in much more wind than that. If it's counter-rotated (rotated to the wrong side), the boat is much slower. You can actually feel the accelleration when the mast goes from counter-rotated to properly rotated.

Daniel

RandyMoon · Post by **RandyMoon** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:01 pm

This winter I am going to bring the mast down and do the BWY bearing mod and if that does not work, I will lock the mast rotation down. Right now I spray it with all the space age lubes and it is aggrevating when it does not rotate. Right now, the wife has to climb up on deck to pull the mast around in low winds. I am getting tired of this M "feature." Since I am not a racer, this is more than a hassle that it is worth.

Matt19020 · Post by **Matt19020** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:50 pm

Randy I am of the same mindset as you. I would rather cruise then race. If it is true and you can pick up 1/2-1 kt. of speed then I will try the bearing and some sailkote for next year with a little rig tunning but if it does not work I think I will lock it centered.
I would rather not run any additional lines to the base of the mast only because I want simplicity and as of right now I already get tangled or trip over the setup I currently have.

Post by **NiceAft** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:22 pm

Interesting thread

I have been of the mindset for awhile that I don't care about the direction which the mast is facing

I go out for simple sailing and relaxation, period! To go up and give the mast a twist is no big deal, but I just don't care anymore.

When I lower the mast to trailer the boat, I lube the washers. I only transport the boat two times during the season ( not including the first time to the marina and the reverse at the end of the sailing season.

) It works for awhile, and then back to normal.

As to the M mast rotating, well that comes under the three S W rule. Some will. Some won't. So what.

The best thing about the mast is the look of wonder when other sailors realizes that it moves.

Ray

Frank C · Post by **Frank C** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:12 pm

beene wrote:Just grab the main sheets between the boom and the traveler and pull aft ...

Makes no diff to we X'rs, but Geoff's suggestion seems exceedingly simple.

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Rotating mast on the M - Elimination?

Rotating mast on the M - Elimination?

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