Full Enclosure

A forum for discussing topics relating to MacGregor Powersailor Sailboats
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hvolkhart
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Full Enclosure

Post by hvolkhart »

We are researching the full enclosure market for our 26 M. So far we stumbeled over three suppliers:

Dowsar Marine: +looks very nice, - high price ($5,600), -we heard of long or no delivery???

Blue Water Yachts: - very little detailed info, + price is OK ($2,900), - we heard no mosquito netting.

Genco Marine: Nat has never built one for an M :o , - needs to have a boat in Toronto area (we are located in Chicago) :( , + offers discount for multiple builds :D , phone price $1,300 Dodger, $1,400 Bimini & connection, $1,500 sides and rear curtain.

What full enclosures do you have?
Who is the supplier/manufacturer?
What is the cost?
Is there anyone in Toronto who can show his boat for measurements to Genco? Nat would come and take the dimensions.
Do you have any pictures?

Do you have any further comments?

Thank you for your input.
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Beam's Reach
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Post by Beam's Reach »

We have the Dowsar enclosure for our X. It came with boat along with lots of other PO installed goodies when we bought it used, so I can't comment on the delivery etc. But we do love the enclosure. Adds a full room to the boat for late nights and early mornings when it's still cool or when the mosquitoes are out and it makes our short season longer by keeping things warmer in the early spring and fall. My older son often sleeps in the cockpit rather that coming into the cabin.

My only complaint is we can't sail with it up and, while we could motor, I just don't feel comformtable with such limited lines of sight, so we take the midde section down and fold just keep the rear section up as a sort of bimini whenwe're under way.

Not sure we would have spent the $5000 for it new when you look at comparable cost of the whole boat, but we sure do use it a lot.

Dowsar has photos on their website. www.dowsar.com
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Duane Dunn, Allegro
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Post by Duane Dunn, Allegro »

I have the Dowsar enclosure on my X. My wife still to this day calls it the best money we ever spent on the boat. Worth every penny. Still in great shape, but I keep my boat covered on the trailer so it doesn't get much weather.

We motor with the all the parts up ( you need to remove the connector to sail but actually can leave up the side curtains going up wind) and I've never had any problems with sight lines. You can see just as well with the wide Dowsar dodger as you can with any other dodger setup. Our dodger, connector and bimini are in place 99% of the time we are on the water, the connector can be flipped back on the bimini for sailing. No straps are needed to keep the dodger or the bimini standing and tight even if the connector is not in place. We've made a number of passages in very nasty weather all zipped up and cozy inside while the rain, spray, and wind tossed torrents of water on us. Our middle son sleeps in the cockpit every night, rain or shine.

The enclosure let's you use all 26' of the boat in all conditions. It's another separate room. With our aft cockpit lounge chairs we can relax in any weather while the kids can be doing their noisy thing below.

Image

Lots of details here:

http://ddunn.org/ModsEnclosure.htm

I can't speak more highly of the product, but I bought mine back in 2003 when they cost less, we had a good exchange rate advantage, and they delivered the product in a reasonable time. I don't think they are using the same mfg now as they did back then.

I am also very well aquainted with the BlueWater product as I have a good friend who works for them. You are correct that there are no opening windows with screens on their product. To open a window you remove the panel. They do make a good product and there are a whole lot of X's and M's up here in the Pacific Northwest with them. BWY has sold over 1000 Macs so you see their enclosure a lot.

It is a well sewn product that seems to last very well from what I've observed on other boats that have had their enclosure longer than I have had my Dowsar. Even after years out in the weather all the time they hold up. They are build a bit lighter than the Dowsar with aluminum bows and plastic fittings. They are also not fully self supporting like the Dowsar design, you do have a few straps to deal with.

I didn't care for the BWY X version because it had the low under the boom bimini just like all the other choices available back then. Headroom was only 5'6" at the helm. The 6'4" headroom of the Dowsar plus all the other features led me to spend more for their product.

I think the BWY M version is better in some ways. The location of the M cockpit being further aft has allowed them to get more headroom under the bimini yet still stay under the boom. The enclosure also nicely wraps around and encloses the aft seats BWY sells. I'm not big on their use of a narrow dodger as it doesn't provide any protection for the cockpit seats, it only protects the companionway. With the full enclosure zipped up including the side curtains you do get all weather protection. They also look sharp in colors, at the Rendezvous this year there were great looking examples in a deep red and a forest green. I'd never go with black, it just gets too hot inside even in our meager NW sun.
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hvolkhart
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Post by hvolkhart »

Thank you Duane for your info.
Do you have or can you get any pictures of the BWY M enclosure?
James V
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Post by James V »

Check with Dowser on how much time they need to deliver it do you. Some people on this board has had to waite a long time. It may be cheeper for you to drive over to pick it up than pay for customs and duties and taxes and credit card charges. However, I do think that thany make a fine product that will last.
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Shane
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Post by Shane »

hvolkhart,

IIRC, there are a couple of pictures of the Eaglet wearing her canvas on their site. Try http://www.bwyachts.com/web%20catalog%2 ... n_page.htm

We got our boat through them and it came with the bimini & dodger components. With the narrow dodger, you will be wearing spray in the cockpit if there is any sort of cross wind. We picked up the connector while at their rendezvous and were glad -given the cloud bursts we got all Friday afternoon :( (probably could have sold it on the spot for profit :) ). I expect we will get the remaining components come spring. If I didn't already have those 2 main components, I would look at other options more thoroughly. I would concur with Duane's opinions of the BWY version, however the benefit of the narrow dodger vs a wider one is that you can go forward more safely when needed. It comes with threaded bolts to attach to the vessel, but I'm going to find some quick release pins of a matching diameter and replace the originals after the season; that will speed up the assembly time considerably.

I don't have a good picture focusing on the cockpit, but if you can look around the laundry, here's a picture showing part of it we have. http://homepage.mac.com/sfawkes/BoB/pag ... page4.html
hvolkhart wrote:Thank you Duane for your info.
Do you have or can you get any pictures of the BWY M enclosure?
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Duane Dunn, Allegro
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Post by Duane Dunn, Allegro »

I'm not sure how wide the Dowsar M dodger is, but it is wider than the BWY M dodger. I would guess they continued a width similar to my X dodger which I think is perfect.

The Dowsar X dodger is a wide dodger (outside the winches) but does not block the entire cabintop like other wide X dodgers do. As you can see in this picture it leaves a perfect shoe width between the dodger and the molded toe rail. This lets you easily step outside the dodger on the lower cockpit coaming then up onto the cabintop to go forward. It works great. My family and dogs easily make the transit from the cockpit to the foredeck all the time with no concerns about access. It's even easy to do with the connector in place. You just step out the open side panel and walk forward.

Image

Yet unlike any other X or M dodgers you get complete protection at the front of both cockpit seats as seen in this picture. The dodger extends 18" back into the cockpit creating a perfect protected area from all spray or weather.

Image

I doubt Dowsar is able to get quite as much protection on their M dodger due to the M traveler and mainsheet.

Even so, a wide dodger goes a lot further when you are getting spray than a narrow dodger.

No doubt it is hard to see in detail, but almost all the enclosures you see in this picture from the BWY rendezvous (except our boat in the right foreground) are BWY enclosures on X's and M's.

Image

Other than that the best pictures I have found are the ones BWY has at their web site which are of my friend Ray's boat 'Eaglet'.
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Andy26M
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Question...

Post by Andy26M »

Looking at these full enclosures, I have a question:

When at anchor if you wanted to go for a swim, can you unzip the back of the enclosure somehow so that you can climb back aboard via the swim ladder? Can the captain's seat swing up, at least partially, to allow access from the ladder? Or do you wind up needing a side ladder to come up through one of the removed side curtains?

Thanks,
Andy
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Beam's Reach
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Post by Beam's Reach »

The Dowsar enclosure's back panel does zip up so you can fold it up over the top or remove it completely. And the captain's seat will fold up...not quite all the way on mine as it hits the side panel, but I have a light line that runs from the lifting side of the seat that ends in a loop that I loop around the aft port cleat to keep the seat up. There is also lower panel that snaps on the fill the area under the seat to help block engine noise that comes off for easy boarding as well.
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Duane Dunn, Allegro
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Post by Duane Dunn, Allegro »

The back panel on my Dowsar rolls right up and has three snap straps to hold it there. The seat can open completely inside the enclosure for un-obstructed access out the transom. They even put a double layer of material where the edge of the seat touches the window when open and have a stainless loop on the inside of the bow for the snap hook on the cable that keeps the seat up.

Image

I couldn't find a good shot of the seat up inside. For years this was the standard route to our dinghy. Now we have switched to the side for the dinghy with our fender step.

Image
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hvolkhart
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Post by hvolkhart »

Duane,
How easy / difficult is it to set up or dismantle the dodger and bimini while trailering?
How are the side walls and the rear attached to the dodger, connection piece and bimini?
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Duane Dunn, Allegro
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Post by Duane Dunn, Allegro »

The side curtains all get stored below rolled up in the storage location I created in the aft berth. It is just a black $2 snow sled attached with velcro strips to make use of a previously wasted area. There are 5 panels to the side curtains. They zip along the top to the bimini and connector and zip vertically to each other and the dodger. They have snaps all around the bottom where they connect to the boat. They are quick to install and remove. We'll usually do that as we near the launch.

Image

The dodger canvas gets removed and stored below as well. It's just a matter of some snaps and lift-a-dots on the deck. Then two zippers release it from the bows. The bows have stand ups with quick pins. You just pull the two teathered pins and the bows fold forward flat. I don't remove them.

The connector gets flipped back on top of the bimini, then the spreader bar in the bimini gets released with it's quick pin and the whole thing folds back. It is held standing in place by the bimini stand ups and I just zip a after market boot over the whole thing. I used to have to pull the bimini standup quick pins and fold it forward for lowering the mast, but now with my new aft arch which holds the mast above the standing bimini I leave it up for trailering. One less thing to take down and setup. Standing up or folded forward I never remove the bows for trailering.

Image

Image
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Beam's Reach
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Post by Beam's Reach »

Duane - you and I have the same enclosure. When we first brought our new boat home a couple of years ago, there were boxes of extra stuff from the PO including all the parts for the full enclosure and no instructions. I spread it all out on my basement floor and slowly pieced it all together using pictures from your (amazingly detailed) website.

But there is one piece I just cannot identify....It doesn't seem to fit anywhere. We have the dodger, side panels, connector, bimini, aft panel, corner panels. the panel for below the captian's seat, and the boot...plus another piece that I've never figured out. It's kind of roughly the shape of the companionway opening but doesn't seem to fit there, and has small loops at the corners. Also, there are snaps on the outside of the aft panel near the top and I've never been able to figure out what these are for either- not for rolling it up because there are built in velcro straps for that. Any ideas?
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Duane Dunn, Allegro
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Post by Duane Dunn, Allegro »

Sounds like you got more pieces than I did. I don't have that extra piece with loops, and I also didn't get a matching boot, I had to buy one. I can't think of any place that piece would go. Got a picture? Maybe it was intended to be a privacy screen at the companionway. Close off the dodger window? Be used somehow in the bow hatch?

I have adapted my aft underseat panel so I can use it at the companionway as well. I store my cut hatchboards under the helm seat aft and mostly don't need the fabric panel there. There are times at docks when we want a little privacy from traffic and rather than drag out the hard panels I use the aft underseat panel. I simply put two more lift-a-dot studs in the companionway opening for mounting it.

Are the snaps on the aft panel in the fabric? Our aft panel has 3 fabric loops with snaps at the end of them for holding the rolled up aft panel. The only velcro we have is at the lower edges of the windows on the side and aft panel. It is for rolling up the zip open windows when you want air but still leave the panels in place for the screens.

Are the snaps inside or out, male or female? Maybe the PO added them for some special purpose. I have added a few to mine. Art at Dowsar described how they came up with a way to hold the side doors open that was better than rolling the panels up which reduced the entry headroom. My enclosure was a tweener which didn't get the velcro for rolling up or the new snap back hardware. I added the required top and bottom snaps for the fold the doors back design myself with some parts he sent.

Image

I also added a couple male snaps to the forward bow zip tube inside the dodger. This lets me fold up and snap the front dodger window so it is open half way to get a little air through without removing it all the way.
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Beam's Reach
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Post by Beam's Reach »

The snaps are female and are on the fabric.

I've never thought of folding the side panels back that way. I usually fold them over the top and stick one of the velcro straps to the velcro on the sunroof in the connector to keep them out of the way. I don't think the mysterious snaps in the aft panel are in the right place, but I'll check it out and if not, maybe add some.

The extra panel doesn't fit the companionway, the dodger, or the bow hatch. We're going out for the weekend so I'll spend some more time trying to figure out where it could go.

Thanks Duane.
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