Comparing 26M, 2004 vs 2005

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temall00
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Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Oak Hill, VA/Potomac river 2003M-Honda 50

Post by temall00 »

Gary,
I will be in Pt. Pleasant Beach next week visiting the in-laws and will be VERY ready to get out of the house for a day (or 4 :wink: .) I'm getting into town Sunday mid-afternoon until Thursday morning.

Let me know what is good for you. I'm near the fishing fleet and spend lots of time at the Wharfside patio bar (even if they did spruce it up) right across from little gull island.


Tim
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Andy26M
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Location: Rochester, NY - 2004 26M

comparing

Post by Andy26M »

cpost -

To get an idea of whether the prices are fair, you should have a good look at the boats themselves in person. Then also try and look at the "comparable" trailer sailors, usually considered to be the Hunter 260 or the Catalina 25 - make sure you are looking at water-ballasted versions. You'll find significant price differences, but you'll be able to get a feel for what you gain and also what you give up by going with the "Power-Sailor" MacGregor design.

You can certainly judge the 2008 model by simply adding up the cost of the boat, motor, and options installed - search online for other dealers' price lists and compare totals.

The other issue that may definitely narrow your choices is the interior layout. As others have stated above - the 2003/4 is VERY different inside than the 2005+ or the older X models. Some folks love one and hate the other, and the argument can go either way, so you have to look at them and judge for yourself depending on your family size and expected usage of the boat.

- Andy
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They Theirs
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Post by They Theirs »

Recognizing owner demand for improved performance and a crew oriented, open, larger volume interior, MacGregor produced a complete redesign for the new “M” 03’/04’model. Combining comfy lounge seating and easy access to the new adult sized aft berth from each side of the cabin ladder with center cabin standing headroom. The 05’ and later production revived the small dinette many classic X owners identified as essential, and the addition of a lightly constructed, wobbly, sliding galley which together encumber entry or exit of each side of the large aft birth for temporary storage or sleeping.

Purchasing a new “M” can include, depending on the dealer, personal help and installation of costly upgrades and accessories. The intended use, be it motoring or sailing, directly effects engine selection, larger/heavy oversize engines, in excess of the factory explicit 50 hp warnings can add marginal motoring performance with some safety and structural issues, not to mention compromising sailing and the factory warranty.

Purchasing a boat, with lots of up to date electronics and upgrades installed to your satisfaction… (Many dislike massive screens mounted atop the helm pedestal, obstructing view, and catching everything from lines to emergency handholds.) A clean M with minimal modification is a better choice than some owner’s unsuitable creation, allowing you to fashion your own. Handheld electronics work well on such a small, close to shore vessel, allowing secure, easy storage out of the sun’s UV rays and caustic environment, (GPS, VHF) leaving depth sounder and problematic wheel steering autopilots covered from the elements.

The “M” factory trailers are rapidly consumed by rust, especially in a salt water environment, but the expensive new bolt together, factory aluminum and steel trailers endurance has yet to be proven, not to mention the security of dual-axel upgrades with surge brakes.

The practical wire forestay retains a performance advantage with hanked on headsails, over the clumsy/cumbersome effort required to deal with the marginal CDI furling system, lacking a functional luff tension, adjustable with the boats jib halyard. (Way too much preparation is required supporting the CDI furler with a large effort securing a loose furling extrusion and rigging for trailering. Double this effort at the launch ramp, to step the mast, with the contemptible furling drum and foil, dragging over the deck, lifelines, spreaders, and side of the boat. Repeat the complete effort for trailering the boat home.)

Basic options directly affecting the boat are engine size and weight, better sails, and quality running rigging. The very inexpensive factory rigging consists of cheap blocks and inexpensive lines. (Look for upgraded blocks and lines, with many added sail controls.) A minimal sail inventory will allow your boat bucks to purchase quality loft sails, designed for the wind range and area you sail. The light duty, inexpensive generic Dacron factory sails offer marginal shape for little more than light air. Every outboard requires a correct propeller, compatible with the boat and your intended use for full range operation and economical performance.

Check the daggerboard, rudders, hardware, and steering carefully for condition and suitable operation. (Excess steering freeplay and loose linkage is common)

Availability of marina dockage or mast-up storage can offset the high cost of fuel, trailer maintenance, launch fees, and the expense of a heavy-duty tow vehicle and maintenance. (The heavy trailer tongue and boat weight requires a capable tow vehicle.)

(Not all marina slips are available with the purchase of the slipped boat…many have waiting lists, or priority waiting for prime locations. Most include the engine tilted up and the pulpit, charging dockage by the foot.) Many affluent communities maintain a strict, vigilant code enforcement against storage of boats, trailers, RV’s and truck/campers, even if behind 6’ fences, visible in the rear yard.

Nothing measure up to purchasing new, and an “M” outfitted with quality loft sails, performance rigging, and or the largest engine and accessories can easily exceed the cost of a larger premium condition sailing yacht. Finding a really nice used “M” requires extensive knowledge of engines, accessories, rigging, trailer and towing experience with vehicles requiring a super-duty hitch, extended mirrors, heavy duty transmissions with additional cooling, along with a heavy-duty radiator.

New “M” equipped to satisfy a seasoned trailer sailor-$40,000 to $50,000+

New heavy tow vehicle comfortably equipped for towing…$40,000

Comparing similar equipped used “M” boats a few years apart, evaluate appearance combined with boat & trailer condition including quality of what we call dealer or factory comparable options. Consider engine controls, instruments, and cables mounted completely internal, in the helm pedestal, a “Plus”. Look for professional installation and quality fasteners, (Having found 12v accessory outlets wired in reverse, fuel line fittings cross-threaded without sealer, interior access-covers screws stripped or missing, wiring exposed due to unacceptable routing, all related to dealer installations) Look for a quality dual-bank battery float cycle charger with deep cycle batteries, properly sized, fused, and switched for the boats 12volt demand. A shorepower receptacle is convenient, but most marinas require a different shorepower-cable connection…. and check the boat interior and bilge for signs of water intrusion. Look carefully at the condition of cushions, with special attention to damaged table, counter top surface. Inspect any holes from old or failed installs. Check for secure mounting as most all interior hard mounting requires backing…. The interior liner is paper-thin construction, and does not accept hardware mounting without backing…. stick on adhesive, accessory mounting works, where possible.

Paying a premium price for a “Grand-Looking” M model in pristine condition, is money well spent, verses a newer “Plane-Jane”, displaying marginal installations, with mismatched canvas and out-of-date, discontinued budget electronics.
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beene
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Post by beene »

Wow!

Ok, and for another OPINION..... from my personal experiences with my M.
and the addition of a lightly constructed, wobbly, sliding galley which together encumber entry or exit of each side of the large aft birth for temporary storage or sleeping.
I love my galley. I move it to where I can stand right in front of it while washing dishes, cooking on the stove, etc. If it were fixed, I would be unable to use it as I am 6 feet tall and need the headroom afforded by the M's higher hatch height. I move it FWD when setting up for the night and it becomes completely out of the way.
larger/heavy oversize engines, in excess of the factory explicit 50 hp warnings can add marginal motoring performance with some safety and structural issues
Well, I have never used a 50, so I can only comment that I have read here that users with a 50 cannot achieve the stated 22mph as per the factory spec sheet or get on a plane when loaded up for a trip. With my motor, I get on a plane, loaded or not, can hit 22mph at reduced rpm, not WOT. I cruise at 20 all the time. Don't even bother going 22. Happy with the reduced noise and better fuel econ at 3700 rpm. As for safety and structural issues?? What's unsafe about that? How many M's with 90's on the back have had structural issues?
Purchasing a boat, with lots of up to date electronics and upgrades installed to your satisfaction… (Many dislike massive screens mounted atop the helm pedestal, obstructing view, and catching everything from lines to emergency handholds.)
I love my 7 inch Eagle GPS/DEPTH/SPEED display. The only view it obstructs is of the inside if the cabin from the helm. last time I checked, I was only interested in seeing where I was going while sitting there. That nice display guided me through some of the most dangerous rock infested areas I have ever been, can't see doing it with some little hard to read hand held unit. To each there own.
problematic wheel steering autopilots
From what I have read here, guys with autopilots seem to love them, wish I had one.
The “M” factory trailers are rapidly consumed by rust,
So far mine is clean, except where I scratched it, can't fault the trailer for my stupidity.
clumsy/cumbersome effort required to deal with the marginal CDI furling system, lacking a functional luff tension, adjustable with the boats jib halyard. (Way too much preparation is required supporting the CDI furler with a large effort securing a loose furling extrusion and rigging for trailering. Double this effort at the launch ramp, to step the mast, with the contemptible furling drum and foil, dragging over the deck, lifelines, spreaders, and side of the boat. Repeat the complete effort for trailering the boat home.)
I LOVE MY FURLING SYSTEM! Sailed for years with and without. I can say hands down that I swear by having one. It's a must have for me. Can't tell you how many sailboats at every marina I go to have 'em. Like 98%. Wonder why?

As for setup, I have no probs whatsoever. I have developed a system, or procedure, where I singled handedly rig and un-rig my boat with nil hassle. I use a spinnaker pole to hold it in place along the mast when trailering, many have other methods, whatever works. I just hook the furler onto the starboard lifeline when raising or lowering the mast. Just crank up the mast, unclip the furler from the lifeline, attach it to the pin at the bow. Whew.... glad that's over 8)
Nothing measure up to purchasing new, and an “M” outfitted with quality loft sails, performance rigging, and or the largest engine and accessories can easily exceed the cost of a larger premium condition sailing yacht.
Apples and Oranges comes to mind.
towing experience with vehicles requiring a super-duty hitch, extended mirrors, heavy duty transmissions with additional cooling, along with a heavy-duty radiator
I just use a Toyota Sienna rated at 3500lbs. Towed it back from Bill's in the US to Canada, and all over the place since..... no probs so far, except for climbing steep hills for extended periods, the Toy doesn't like that, for that I think you would need a full size truck with a V8. :o
New “M” equipped to satisfy a seasoned trailer sailor-$40,000 to $50,000+
psssssssssst you can get it from someone who advertises on this board for much much less.... I did.
New heavy tow vehicle comfortably equipped for towing…$40,000
Guess I better sell my old van eh?

My .02

G
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Highlander
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Post by Highlander »

G

Calm down just look at who your responding to !!!!

T&T likes to push his views he's young & foolish !!! but then I'm old & foolish too !!! :) he tends to exagerate just a wee bit to much I think it's something to do with the Irish blarney in his blood :D :D :D :P :wink:
but he do'es come up with some very good stuff now & then I copied his jumper strut post :) :wink: .

But jesus murfhy boy were not towing a nucular sub down byway give yer head a shake
I've pulled trl's with #96000 payload busted suspension no brakes , tandem trk with no jake brakes how'ed yer like to suck up them apples I could tell yer more but I might get arrested :D :D :D :wink: you have some good points & some B/S I think yer like to hear yourself talk a wee bit too much Laddie :P :wink: lets put a real life view on these thing's & cut out the crap & use something called common sense !!!!

T&T beene does make some very true statments & I do agree with him although I do like some of the good stuff you come up with now & then so keep posting every one to his own :) :wink: who said I'm always right anyway Me Of Course :wink:

now can I stirr up anymore sh-tttt

Cheers john
waternwaves
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Post by waternwaves »

TT-- some of us put up with the furler because we sail mostly by ourselves.....,

and I have learned to enjoy the rigging experience a little bit more.

more people get to watch at the ramp...... i like to call it the 1/8 Ton deck dance......

I mean really...
look at all these top of boat acrobatics....

Macgregor shimmy with the mast....
mast up,
furler pinned, sheets and furler threaded and chocked...
boom, kicker, vang on, slugs slipped,
dodger on
bimini/enclosure up
cockpit cushions snapped in.........

voila...........

No sailors were injured in the production of this segment.........lol

And I rarely drop anything anymore....

however........
I have learned that a 200lb retrieval magnet from harbor freight was a wise investment.... 8) :P :wink:
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Andy26M
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opinions

Post by Andy26M »

I'll add a few comments here, too - following up on TT's views -

I also have a CDI furler with a 150 Genoa and I rig the boat solo every time, with no difficulties. You just have to learn how to manage the thing: (1) put a car wash mitt over the drum so if you do drop it, the blow is cushioned, (2) use a suitable length bungy to hold the drum to the pulpit or lifeline to help you keep it under control, (3) put the extrusion/sail over your shoulder so that it does not lay on one spreader and cause the mast to twist all the way to one side or the other, so that you can get the spreader under the lifeline. Once you figure out the basic idea of keeping it under control, it's no problem whatsoever. I put my Genny on the furler in the spring and it does not come off until winter storage time.

I tow with a 1999 Isuzu Trooper, 6 cylinder. Rated at 5K towing capacity. It's been an awesome tow vehicle. The hitch and transmission cooler, installed, ran less than $400 at U-Haul. WAY less than $40K. I'd actually contend that the shorter wheel base of the SUV makes it a lot easier to maneuver the long boat trailer in reverse than it would be with a full-sized truck or van. I've towed my vehicle through/across the Adirondacks in Northern NY with no difficulty - you do have to be patient on the big hills, is all.

I have a Garmin GPS 188C chart plotter mounted on top of the pedestal. I think the whole box is about 8" square. It's never been in the way at all, and never caught a line.

I have an ST4000+ wheelpilot that has been on the boat for over 2 years and works like a charm. I did have to replace the original steering wheel with an 18" wheel to fit the ap. I mounted the control panel for the autopilot on the side of the pedestal, right out in the weather. I do not cover my pedestal during the summer - it gets covered with the rest of the boat in winter - again, never a problem since I first installed it.

My trailer was in salt water for the first two years I had it. You MUST keep on top of rust spots: a few times a year I grind the rust down to bare metal, prime, and spot paint with gloss black. I just use Rust-Oleum spray paint. Last fall I did have to replace both of the trailer wheel hubs/rotors due to the salt water corrosion, despite the fact that I did wash them down with fresh water after each time I dipped the trailer in the salt. I also had to replace the front wheel assembly, but I think that was due to the way it was stored rather than salt water (my own fault).

Many of us who launch/recover the boat solo have made additions to the trailer to make it easier. I've added two additional "goal" posts up about where the chainplates of the boat are when it is trailered. Also extended the factory goal posts to 5 feet tall so that they cannot go under the boat as you drive it onto the trailer. With the 4 tall goal posts, I can easily and gently drive the nose up into the "v" of the trailer without getting blown sideways over top of the fenders and such. The added set of goal posts cost like $80 and were a 15-minute bolt-on mod.

I've been sailing for over 20 years and I'm very satisfied with my 26M now - I figure I have about $33k invested in the boat and trailer, having done many of the mods and electrical work myself.

YMMV (your mileage may vary).

- Andy
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Catigale
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Post by Catigale »

The bungy on the CDI furler is a great trick for keeping it aligned and on deck while stepping the mast - Ive trailered my :macx: with 150 genny now for 6 seasons, stepping mast solo with no Mast raising system. The MRS does make it a snap and I do recommend it, but stepping the mast on these boats is nothing to fear. once you solve the extrusion 'twist' problem its easy to rig. Standing at the crotch and using the spreaders as handle bars was the single biggest tip I got.

Tow vehicle for me is a 2002 VW van - rated at 5k, but only 200 HP - nice and slow on the hills.

I bought a 10' piece of PVC (11 USD) and cut it into two 5' goalposts for extensions - small hole at top to let air out, since I capped the top to stop the

Image




from flying in. Sometimes you can get birds in both sides in which case you have a nice pair of them.
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Gerald Gordon
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Post by Gerald Gordon »

I've just used the calculator. My '99 X with most of the options listed but not including mods 12v frig, Trojans, fresh water head, autoP and all the other personal preferences I have on my boat ..... $37,700 dollars.

WHAT?????? My boat went up in value..... BRILIANT

Finally, proof!!!! I'm a genius.
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baldbaby2000
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Post by baldbaby2000 »

We have a 2005 because the Admiral didn't like the old layout; case closed.

Make sure you consider the condition of the sails before you settle on a price.
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Dimitri-2000X-Tampa
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Post by Dimitri-2000X-Tampa »

I used to use a bungy attached to the furler drum, but now I use the even simpler approach of the furler line led through the fairlead and back to the cockpit where I raise/lower the mast from. You can adjust the tension on the furler line to hold the furler off the deck while raising or lowering.
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beene
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Post by beene »

I have learned that a 200lb retrieval magnet from harbor freight was a wise investment....
Hey, can I borrow that :?:

I really miss my BBQ handle bolt thingy magigger... among other things.

:o

Plop...

:|
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NiceAft
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Post by NiceAft »

cpost wrote:Has anyone heard anything good or bad about South Shore Marina in Greenwood Lake New Jersey?
In 2004, when I went looking for a Mac, I met the owner at the A.C. boat show. He was a knowledgeable guy who struck me as honest. I went to Greenwood Lake to go out on an M. I did not purchase from him because when I went to the Annapolis boat show, I met another dealer who, altho from Virginia, did his distribution from Quakertown Pa. Since Quakertown is only a half hour from here, that's where I finally purchased from.

How much time do you believe you will be motoring? I should ask, what do you believe will be the longest extended running time under power you will experience? I ask this because I notice that all of the boats have two 6 gallon tanks, not two 12 gallon tanks. If you are only powering to get out of the marina, then 6 gallon tanks are fine. If, as I do occasionally, you are going a distance to get to your destination, 12 gallon tanks are handy :)

You also say the boats have a second battery with a switch. Do they also have charging systems :?: It's been three years since I have looked into that sort of thing, so I ask because I don't remember if a charging system is standard? This would also dictate a shore power hook up. Again, it has been awhile since I looked into this stuff. For the last three seasons I have been enjoying the rewards of my search.
Image
Click to enlarge(As if that fish aint big enough already 8) )
With a good GPS/sonar fish finder, the Mac is a good fishing boat also :D

LOOKING AT THE PHOTO REMINDS ME. DON'T FORGET YOUR PFD. GET ENOUGH FOR THE CREW AND WEAR THEM :!: I don't care what anyone says about keeping them close by, just in case :(

Ray
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beene
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Post by beene »

Nice fish Ray

Did you cook it on the Q, or fry it in butter :?:

G
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NiceAft
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Post by NiceAft »

Actually, I wrapped it in aluminum, and before sealing it, I poured a whole bunch of Lemoncello (I made it myself) on it. I then placed it on the grill. This had the effect of steaming it.

Ray
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