Standing Rigging Tension?

vkmaynard · Post by **vkmaynard** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:18 am

Accroding to Loos, the max 5/32" wire tension should be no more than 360 lbs.

Victor

Frank C · Post by **Frank C** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:24 am

I've seen breaking strength reported variously between 2,800 and 3,300 lbs. for 5/32" wire rope. I think the industry usually pegs it at a nice round 3,000 lbs. IIRC, the max recommended rig tension (safe working load) is 25% of breaking strength, or ~750 lbs???

Look in various catalogs, various manufacturers, for 5/32" turnbuckle ratings (generally with quarter-inch clevis pins) ... usually they say 3,000 lbs. I upgraded shrouds to these these puppies. Interesting to note that their model for 1/8" wire uses a 1/4" pin ... rated at 3,200 lbs. When speaking with the Mfg, he recommended choosing according to pin size rather than wire size.

Terry · Post by **Terry** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:02 am

Frank,
Am I to understand these puppies replace the need for a loos guage? Nice link by the way!

kziadie · Post by **kziadie** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 12:47 pm

Frank,

Like those turnbuckles, it looks as if they are much easier to adjust than the verniers even with the visegrip RAT. Do they attach to the shroud and the chainplate with the same clevis pin/ring ding setup? Does the adjustment nut lock in place when adjusted?

Kelly

delevi · Post by **delevi** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:31 pm

Daniel,

I don't trailer too often, maybe 4-6 times per year. Before getting my new forestay (5/32" and 2" shorter than stock) I had no problem pinning it by cranking the hull out for the mast raising system. I just recently installed the new forestay and dropped the pins on the shrouds before taking the turnbuckle almost all the way to the limit. This measured at 600 lbs uppers and 320 lbs lowers. I adjusted the turnbuckle with forestay pinned, so not sure how it will unpin/pin. I may shorten the length of the aft line of the mast raiser to achieve more load before the winch touches the mast. I’ll disconnect the baby stays once the slack is taken up by the shrouds before cranking it down. Another option is to use the trailer winch, connecting to the jib/spinnaker halyard. Most of the time, my boat is fully rigged, ready to sail on SF Bay, so I don't mind a bit of the extra effort in the rigging process for the added performance. I tested the setup a few days ago in a nice 25-30 knts wind with double reefed main. I actually had a bit of lee helm. UNBELIEVABLE! Never thought I would get that in the Mac. I'll have to wait until my replacement IDA rudders arrive before making a final judgment as to whether I now have too little mast rake... doubt it. The fact that the boat didn't even try to round up in these winds was an amazing surprise. This test was on the return trip beating upwind. On the way down, I was on a beam reach with big waves…. i.e. my broaching problem. This time I pulled up the DB 3/4 and the difference was amazing. I was also mindful of the waves and really paid close attention to my steering, staying in the grove and being careful coming off a wave, trying not to let the bow dig in. Only had two partial broaches. hull of a ride surfing the waves. Consistent 8.5-9.5 mph, frequently exceeding 10. I hit 12 mph for a brief time, then came off a wave and rounded up a bit. GREAT FUN!

By the way, how are you liking your new sails?

Leon

Frank C · Post by **Frank C** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:42 am

kziadie wrote:Like those turnbuckles, it looks as if they are much easier to adjust than the verniers even with the visegrip RAT. Do they attach to the shroud and the chainplate with the same clevis pin/ring ding setup? Does the adjustment nut lock in place when adjusted?

Kelly,
Yes, they use quarter-inch pins. Does not eliminate the need for a Loos gauge, just makes it lots easier to employ. They're not an automatic bolt-on upgrade. Depending upon the length of your current adjusters, you'll need to do some fabricating to insert them & gain adjustability range. The collapsed StaMaster is about the length of Roger's vernier slide. Look at the full-sized photo ... you can see I had left the nut retainer for one adjuster nut slightly off (unclicked).

I never adjust the rig under full tension, though a wrench CAN turn that big adjuster nut. (I'd worry about galling the SS.) I was using the mast raiser to ease rig tension before each tension tweak. After installing StaMasters, PLUS a QR lever under the furler, rig tuning is a snap.

Lots of previous discussion & pictures. Go here to find some discussion & three links. Also, search on StaMaster to find a half-dozen threads, on-point. IIRC, the "Mystery" thread described my initial install.

(Alt. search terms: Sta-master, sta/master, sta master)

kziadie · Post by **kziadie** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:03 am

Thanks Frank, I think that is going to be added to the list of my projects for this winter.

Kelly

delevi · Post by **delevi** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:53 pm

I'd love to sail with you if I'm ever in the area. Sounds like a great time!

Any time buddy.

Terry · Post by **Terry** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:09 pm

vkmaynard wrote:Buy the best Loos gauge (PT1) for 5/32" wire from Online Marine for $88 delivered: http://www.onlinemarine.com/cgi-local/S ... 1180680787. It is more accurate and clamps on the wire, hands free.
Victor

Wow!

The PT1 (Pro Rig Tension Gauge 3/32-5/32) is $117.99 Canadian at Worst Marine! The only upside is they have it in stock and I can drive down there in 30 mnutes to pick it up. Bit of a hard pill to swallow.

Frank C · Post by **Frank C** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:38 pm

Terry wrote:Wow! The PT1 (Pro Rig Tension Gauge 3/32-5/32) is $117.99 Canadian at Worst Marine!

Sad, but true.

Mine was only US$ 55 at WM in 2001 (iirc?), but now $88 online.

Disadvantages that came along with the M-boat ... increased pricing by Roger, increased pricing by the peripheral vultures. Regardless ... I highly recommend the PT1 rather than its cheaper sibling. The PT1 tension reading is much easier to read ... which IS kinda the point.

Terry · Post by **Terry** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 6:32 pm

OK, I broke down & bought it, the PT1 for a grand total of $132.00 with tax & GST.
Iwent out and measured what I had done by guess & by golly and found 35 = 14% 480# on the upper shrouds, 25 = 6.5% 230# on lower shrouds and 24 = 6% 200 on forestay. Looks like a bit more adjusting is in order, I guess the uppers are fine, perhaps a bit more on the lowers and quite a bit on the forestay. Thing is forestay is turnbuckle tightened all the way, so now what? Does tightening the uppers shorten the forestay so that I can tighten it more? Not sure what to do from here, any advice? Loos gauge is cool but pricey!

delevi · Post by **delevi** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 7:24 pm

Upper shroud tension will add tension to the forestay. In turn, you will add some tension to the lowers by tightening the uppers, so don't add anything to the lowers first. Take the uppers up a notch and see what happens. You may actually end up adding two notches to the uppers and dropping the lowers a notch at the end of the day. It's a bit of a tricky balancing act.

According to my loose gauge manual, you can take the uppers up to 20% on a fractionally rigged boat with swept back spreaders. This is why I'm at 600 lbs. wichi is about 18% Lowers I thought were at 320 which was correct on the trailer. On the water, they measured out to 280#. This resulted an a tight forestay, but don't have a measurement for that. All I can say is I am by far happiest with this setup so far after tweaking around for a couple of years.

Leon

kziadie · Post by **kziadie** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 8:38 pm

I have 330 on my uppers and 230 on my lowers. I do have a bit of forestay sag but I cant seem to get my uppers any tighter even with the RAT. I could get a bit more on my lowers but when I do that and sight up the mast, the very top seems to bend a little forward so I backed it off. Mast rotates fine, so I left it as it is.

Leon... did you level your trailer when you measured your lowers? I cant think of a good reason why you should see a difference on the water provided there was not significant wind.

Kelly

delevi · Post by **delevi** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:34 am

Kelly,

No, I didn't level my trailer and I frequently get high winds at my Marina. Oyser point is a wind funnel, so perhaps that's why the different readings. The uppers stayed consistant but the lowers changed. Not exactly sure why/how. If you want to add more load to the shrouds with the RAT, use a vice grip on the turning knob of the RAT. Learned that from Moe. That works fine to a point, but to get them really tight, you would need to use the mast raising kit, unpin the forestay, slack everything off, adjust the shrouds while not under load and then repin the forestay. A bit of a hassle, but worth it at the end.

Boblee · Post by **Boblee** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 9:04 pm

Well after reading this thread it looks like I have to buy a loos gauge, see one advertised but they just call it a proffesional no model # at $150 aus ($123 USD) its a bitter pill for sure for something that won't be used often.
Although checked the shrouds and the lowers were real loose even though they were tight last time I checked.
Not much chance of borrowing one locally SO

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Standing Rigging Tension?

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