Steering Broke

[c130king]

Fellow Mac Sailors,

It's me again. Good day sailing today...at least for the first 1.5 hours. My buddy was at the helm. I was sitting on the high side controlling the sheets.

We tacked and after we rolled out of the turn I instructed my bud to come a little left. But he said the wheel would not turn any further to the left. I looked under the seat and could see my powerful 40HP Merc Monster sitting pretty much centered. I gave the wheel a tug and could not get it to go left. So we did a 270 degree jibe. And when we rolled out of that turn he could not turn left or right. Neither could I.

I quickly got the genny furled in and since we were pretty much into the wind I got the main down with no problems. Lowered the monster and cranked it up but we could not get the wheel to turn at all.

Looked underneath at the steering rods and didn't see anything out of place. But the wheel would not turn (maybe 1 inch of play but that was it). Rudders were centered but stuck.

We were three miles from the marina so we raised the seat and secured it up. Disconnected the monster from the steering rod. It moved easily through its full range of motion. My buddy figured out that we could stick the hook end of the boat pole into the handle on the back/top of the motor and steer it with the boat pole. So we motored back with boards down steering with the boat pole.





I was able to back into my slip by moving the monster by hand. In fact it was even easier doing it that way than with the steering wheel as I could move it further and faster than with the wheel.

Anyway...opened up the steering console. Nothing looked out of place. Disconnect the steering wheel rod (not sure of the correct terminology) from the metal frame that (I think) holds the top of the steering cable. When I pulled that metal frame (2" wide, 1" thick rectangular "pipe" for lack of a better term that runs down into the pedastal column...at least 12-15" long) away from the steering wheel rod the steering wheel and the gear/teeth on the rod turned easily with no binding.

I assume the problem is the steering cable. I did some searches and found more info than I can read right now. I will do some more digging. Would appreciate any info that anyone has on this problem. Don't know if I have the skills or tools (away from home with the boat for two more weeks) to fix this problem. I plan on calling a boat technician tomorrow and see what he says.

While the boat is down I will replace the halyard (see previous post), repair some cleats, replace some boat cover snaps, tighten up some loose cam cleats for my genny sheets, and bitch/moan/whine about my inability to sail for a few days (I am a C-130 pilot...we are trained from an early age on how to bitch/moan/whine )

Thanks,
Jim

ON EDIT: Edited original post to add pics of the temporary steering method we used to get back to the Marina

[DLT]

If joe ain't bitch'en, he ain't happy... Been there...

Ok, so motor turns freely, independently of the steering system.

Steering system does not turn, in either direction, with or without the motor connected.

You might check that there is nothing fouling the rudders/mechanism outside the boat.

The cable, on the M, stays entirely within the boat. So, its protected. That's not to say it can't fail... But, a nasty kink or something like that should be easy to see.

[c130king]

The rudders are up. Nothing seems to be "binding" them. And I see no kinks anywhere.

How would one disconnect the steering cable at the bottom end? If I disconnect that end and the steering rods and rudders will move back and forth with me pushing on them would that not isolate the problem to the steering cable?

Thanks,
Jim

[Mikebe]

I've heard of getting back on a wing and a prayer but it's the first time I've heard of a boat-pole and a prayer.

I'm interested to know what you find out...and I'll remember the high-tech boat pole steering method in case I ever need it.

[Frank C]

Anyway...opened up the steering console. Nothing looked out of place.
Disconnect the steering wheel rod (not sure of the correct terminology)
from the metal frame that (I think) holds the top of the steering cable.
When I pulled that metal frame (2" wide, 1" thick rectangular "pipe"

Jim,
Your M has rack & pinion steering. You disconnected the pinion shaft from the rack (the rectangular pipe), discovering that the jam is somewhere between the rack and the steering linkage. BTW, I think you took a rather rare approach. In order to re-assemble pinion to rack, you might have a re-indexing problem ... not sure.

You now need to crawl into the way-back and have a look-see at your cable terminal rod and the steering linkage. Since your rack is now loose in the pedestal, seems you'll be able to push/pull the linkage, looking for any binding. I can't imagine your rack/cable is already broken ... gotta believe there's some linkage problem back there.

If the cable is truly frozen or locked inside its cable sheath, just buy a complete steering system. The full system ... cable, rack & pinion costs about the same as cable only ($135). You might consider replacing with a Uflex rotary system. Suggest you begin by reading 2 specific threads from earlier this month, and post add'l questions there or here, whichever seems most logical for your questions:
Snap goes the steering
Reply to snap steering

[delevi]

Yeah, what Frank said. First incident I recall of steering failure on an You may also check if the bolt holding the cable fitting came out, or even partially which may cause it to bind up. Both panels at the back of the aft berth come out and will allow you to see everything.

Leon

[c130king]

Frank/Leon,

Thanks for the info.

may also check if the bolt holding the cable fitting came out, or even partially which may cause it to bind up

Leon, what bolt are you talking about?

If the cable is truly frozen or locked inside its cable sheath, just buy a complete steering system. The full system ... cable, rack & pinion costs about the same as cable only ($135).

Frank, when you say "full system" what all are you talking about beyond the cable?

Also, where does one order one of these cables?

I went underneath today and played around with it. The "piston" that comes out of the cable and then into the steering rod (terminology???) connected to the starboard rudder seemed "dry". So I sprayed everything down with WD-40.

Then I was able to remove the large locking nut that holds the cable in place as the "piston" slides in and out. This freed up the cable to move (but not the piston). I was able to move my rudders manually so I know that they are not locked up in any way.

Thus I am pretty sure the problem is the steering cable. After spraying everything down with WD-40 (including all the pivot points for all the connecting rods/bars to tie the two rudders together) I went back up into the cockpit and re-attached the "pinion" to the steering wheel rod. I was hopeful...but it was not to be.

And on top of all that I lost one of the lock nuts to one of the four hex bolts that holds the pinion gear in place and tight with the steering wheel rod. It fell down into the pedastal column. Oh well!!

I have a "mechanic" making a "house call" next week sometime. I will see what he says.

Jim

[Moe]

If it fell in the pedestal column it might be on the aft berth. If not, moving the cables and wiring around a bit might let it drop through.

[Frank C]

The full steering system is the cable plus the steering head, or stated imperfectly above, "cable, rack & pinion." I can't tell from your description exactly what's going on, but these systems are lifetime-lubed at the factory. The "piston" is just a pushrod that's attached to end of the steering cable.

Are you saying the cable is willing to move as disassembled, but frozen when you bolt the pinion to the rack? If you were really curious, you could remove the cable from the bottom of the rack (kinda greasy) and push/pull it ... sounds as if that WILL actuate your steering as intended, meaning there's some glitch inside the rack, not within the cable. Anyway, I recommend buying the total system, as did someone in the "Reply" thread I linked.

Since it's all disassembled, I think I'd just order the Uflex planetary system, described in those 2 earlier threads I linked above. I think there's prolly also a link to the steering page at Go2Marine.com, the on-line guys where I bought mine. You'll need to choose a cable length -- guessing you'll need a nine footer -- but be safe & use a string to measure the length of the one you're replacing. You might just save the mechanic's "visit fee" and do it all yourself. Better yet, invite one of those flight-line Sgts on a cruise ....
w/caveat that he needs to help you with "something" first!

[c130king]

Muchas Gracias Amigo!!!

[c130king]

Update...

Took one of my more mechanically inclined buddies out to König today to look things over.

Since I haven't seen any pictures on previous steering system posts I took some photos.

Since I sprayed everything down with WD-40 yesterday there was some faint glimmer of hope that I could break the cable free today. But when we turned the wheel it was still locked up. In fact I could feel the pinion and rack gears slipping/grinding.


Here is a pictcure of the steering cable down below where the piston comes out of the cable.

The large nut holds the cable firmly against the bracket connected to the upper side of the steering well. The piston comes out of the cable. A metal sleeve is somehow attached to the piston and that metal sleeve is bolted to the starboard rudder bracket.

We removed the bolt connecting that metal sleeve to the rudder bracket. The threads on the SS bolt were not aligned or got out of alignment somehow and it was a royal pain in the @$$ to get the nut off the bolt.



Once we had the steering cable/piston/metal sleeve disconnected from the rudder we tried the steering again while simultaneously tapping on the end of the piston with a hammer to see if we could get it to move. It didn't move. Steering wheel pinion and rack continued to slip/grind.

So now it was time to look at the pinion and rack.



You can see that I am missing the bottom right hex bolt. That is the one that the nut slipped out of my fingers and fell down the pedastal.

Moe Said:

If it fell in the pedestal column it might be on the aft berth. If not, moving the cables and wiring around a bit might let it drop through.

Sure enough...there it was between the cushions.

However, when we pulled the rack back, which is not very far, only about an inch...we could see the pinion gear. There were definite chunks of metal in the pinion gears. We think they are chunks of rack gears. Can't see the rack gears due to the angle of view. I guess I would have to remove the other side of the pedastal (along with the throtttle, motor key block, and the motor tilt switch) to view the rack gears better.

Now some more questions. How would I remove the old steering cable? Does it get pulled out through the pedastal?

Does the new one get inserted down through the pedastal?

Would I need to disconnect or do anything with the other cables going through the pedastal? (engine controls, tach, sounder, DC power cables)

Here is a picture of the label on my steering cable:



Looks like this an 8' cable. Should I stick with 8' or would there be any issues with using 9'?

I am hoping I can buy a rack/pinion cable set up here in Norfolk area so that I don't have to wait 7-10 days for delivery. I have a mechanic coming out next week and I am hoping that he can install the new cable.

Thanks again for any assistance.

Jim

[DLT]

You've got the cable disconnected at the bottom right?

So, if you can disconnect the rack from the steering wheel and the pedestal, I should think you could just pull the whole mess (rack and cable out of the pedestal. Then, when you get the new rackand cable, you could feed the cable down the throat and bolt the new rack in place and reconnect everything...

I'd think 9' of cable rather than 8' would be not big deal, just a bit bigger loop... I would, however, keep the old 8' cable as a spare - as it looks like the problem is the rack itself...

[c130king]

Actually I think the cable is completely froze up. That is why the rack gears are stripped because I forced it.

I hope I haven't damaged the pinion gears on the steering wheel shaft.

But yes. All disconnected down below. The cables coming out of the pedastal are all wrapped up in a type of wrap. Simply have to cut that way and then pull it all out through the pedastal...I think.

Jim

[Frank C]

1) Actually I think the cable is completely froze up.
2) That is why the rack gears are stripped because I forced it.
3) I hope I haven't damaged the pinion gears on the steering wheel shaft.
4) All disconnected down below. ...
5) Simply have to cut that way and then pull it all out through the pedastal...I think.

1. Frozen cable is puzzling ... exposed to green water in 26X, not for yours.
2. Fair enough, no great loss, you really need to swap everything.
3. Forget about your steering head & pinion. You'll swap them too.
4. Half-way home.
5. Yes, pull the cable out the top, with a light cord tied to the pushrod. The cord might help when you're pulling the new cable back down the pedestal.

You also need to remove the steering wheel. There's a set-screw holding the black centercap, then a large nut holding the steering wheel.

Get a set of deep, large sockets, prolly 6 in the pkg, from 3/4" up to 1-1/4" (Stanley brand, Walmart, ten bucks). Also get the large ratchet or breaker bar (also $10). You need them in your boat toolkit. They'll fit your propeller nut, trailer fender nuts, trailer spring nuts, lug nuts ... very handy to have in the bilge. Obviously, one of those sockets will also fit your steering nut.

Since you are changing the "steering system" I was recommending that you read the prior post, regarding an upgrade to the Uflex planetary-rotary steering head. Uflex is the only choice for planetary gearset. Uflex is also the only choice for the bronze capnut ... very important on a 26X, but can't hurt, either, for your M.

Steering history & designs: Roger started with rotary steering heads, basically just a rack gear wrapped into a circle, pinion touching at one point inside the circle. Those systems were undersized for our boats. In '99 Roger upgraded to a rack & pinion. It's more difficult to fit into a pedestal, but it offered greater capacity rating, less breakage problems. Only in the recent couple of years, Uflex has brought out their planetary rotary steering head. Rather than 1 contact point, their center pinion drives 3 planet-gears, at 6 contact points. Uflex recommends this system (RoTech) as a more compact & more reliable replacement for rack & pinion systems.

Repeating some of the same info in earlier linked thread, now quoted below ...

Duane comments that the Uflex has a bronze nut at the end, still working after 10 years, so I called Uflex and confirmed they have bronze nut. I described our MFG situation, that the builder had switched from rotary to rack system in model year '99 due to problems with the rotary. Here's new info for everyone.

Uflex said rotary systems in the industry have always been just a rack bent into a circle around a pinion. The problem with both systems is the single contact point where the drive pinion activates the rack or the ring gear. But Uflex has just redesigned their rotary system so it now uses a planetary gear set with six points of contact. He strongly recommended upgrading from my current rack system to either of their planetary systems ...
1. Rotech - semi-feedback system @ ~ $140
2. Accura - zero feedback system @ ~ $170 ("non-reversible" per Uflex)

The Accura system ("non-reversible" or zero-feedback) will apparently eliminate ANY free movement by the steering linkage. It automatically "locks" the steering except for when the wheel is moved. Since I have the autopilot attached directly to the aft deck linkage, the zero-feedback clutches would lock the linkage and prevent the tillerpilot from operating -- so I ordered the Uflex Rotech w/ cable at 9 feet. (Yes, I am planning to replace my factory rack system with the planetary Rotech by Uflex, a rotary system).



BTW ... Uflex advises that the steering head and cable are both sealed with "lifetime lubrication." The only user maintenance is at the aft-deck support tube, through which the cable pushrod extends. He says that support tube should be well-packed with grease, annually, to prevent water from migrating to the cable itself.

[c130king]

Frank,

Thanks for info and thanks for the clarification. I was thinking going with another rack & pinion system but what you are recommending is going with the U-Flex Rotary System: http://www.go2marine.com/product.do?no=157040F

Does this system include a new shaft for the steering wheel? What other items would I need to install this?


Just looking at the picture I posted earlier of my pedastal it seems as if the steering wheel shaft sits pretty low in the pedastal. Does this new rotary attachment sit up above it?

Has any owner put one of these in? Any issues making it fit?

Thanks,
Jim