Ran the spinnaker Sunday

A forum for discussion of how to rig and tune your boat or kicker to achieve the best sailing performance.
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Richard O'Brien
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Post by Richard O'Brien »

having sailed with you Daniel, I know that you are just as comfortable sailing on the rubrail as you are on the keel :) Much to the dismay of your passengers :P

I did the race commitee boat this past wednesday for the first time. It afforded me time to closely observe while waiting for the finish. We set up the course for the first mark upwind and from the west. After the first leg the wind picked up to about 10 knots, and shifted out of the south. This changed the course for the faster spinnaker fleet from an upwind downwind course to a reach. some of the boats switched to assymetrics, and some to genoas. The results were mixed with one of the genoas winning, but that was due to a good sailor I think :wink: The assyms. were really screaming, and given a longer course wouild have caught up, probably. Mike, the local Northsail rep. says they are only about 168% approx., and are not much bigger than a 150 genoa, but, it's the deep shape that makes them work. He also said that we have to learn to fly a loose tack which adjusts back to the cockpit to really get that lift :? For me it's a lot to learn about these sails
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baldbaby2000
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Post by baldbaby2000 »

He also said that we have to learn to fly a loose tack which adjusts back to the cockpit to really get that lift
Can you elaborate on this a little? I did notice that sheeting the main in tighter than I normally would seemed to improve the shape of the spinnaker and it was easier to keep it from collapsing.

Daniel
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Chip Hindes
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Post by Chip Hindes »

Look at this article on the Doyle website for how to set up your assym spinnaker with a tackline, and suggestions for flying it.
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Richard O'Brien
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Post by Richard O'Brien »

Wow, Nice find Chip 8)

Tonite i went down to the end of the dock hoping to find a ride for the Wed. nite race. The wind was 26-35 MPH out of the south according to NOAA. There was some talk of abandonment , but everyone was hungry to race no matter what. I was getting a little discouraged when suddenly a beautiful Ultimate 20 sailed up, and the skipper asked"have you ever sailed an assymetric before?" "Wanna crew?" if this was a romance novel, my heart suddenly would have gone cross-eyed :)
The U-20 is the fastest boat in our fleet, and class rules are they only fly assymetrics. I learned more in one hour from these guys than i could have learned on my own in an entire summer.

The bow spit is hauled out with a line from the cockpit, and the tack pennant runs back to the cockpit. At the mark on the port tack i was to furl in the jib as fast as possible. i really blew that :( At the same time the bowman clips the tack on and we haul the bowspit out. The bowman returns , clips on the halyard, and i begin hauling hand over hand. we sail off the wind on a reach until we pick up speed. As we get past 12 knots and head for 13 a sound vibration erupts from the daggerboard, and we are planing :D The skipper, Marty, heads more downwind until the speed starts to fall off, and then he comes back to a reach, and so on. Our course is like a wavy line, and he said it's always like this. When the wind builds we let out the tack line to put more space between the main and the spinnaker so it won;t blanket it. As the puffs died we took it back to about 3 ft. above the deck again. I don't want to make this sound too smooth. We broached three times, as we attempted to jibe and float the assym around the forestay. The mainsail got caught with a sticking block, and when we came onto the new heading we just got laid over, cpin and main in the water. That and a couple of strategy errors might have cost us the race. Fortunately nobody went overboard, and we always came back up It was a pretty stiff blow, but adrenalin was making it manageable. Mark, the trimmer liked to let it fly out there when we had the speed, and I or both of us would call seconds for puffs as they overcame us from behind. 5 seconds 4 seconds 3 seconds 2, 1 , The boat would go up on her rails, and then i would let the traveller to leward about 3 inches,(much like You and i have done Daniel,)as he let the assym sheet out. i blew a lot of commands, and just hope that they'll let me back sometime as this was a truly valuable lesson.
eric3a

Post by eric3a »

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Last edited by eric3a on Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Terry
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Post by Terry »

Richard O'Brien Wrote:
I was getting a little discouraged when suddenly a beautiful Ultimate 20 sailed up, and the skipper asked"have you ever sailed an assymetric before?" "Wanna crew?" if this was a romance novel, my heart suddenly would have gone cross-eyed
The U-20 is the fastest boat in our fleet, and class rules are they only fly assymetrics. I learned more in one hour from these guys than i could have learned on my own in an entire summer.
Must be the luck of the Irish! :D
I'm Jealous :P
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baldbaby2000
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Post by baldbaby2000 »

Terry,

Art's boat was there Sunday but he said he had to rerig it in order to get the sails up. It sounded like his halyards weren't right or something. He has a slip for it but he may have pulled it to do the rerigging.

Daniel
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Richard O'Brien
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Post by Richard O'Brien »

eric3a wrote:Sounds like tons of fun!!
I've got this thing about over 12 knots monohull sailing... I think it comes from the older analog speed logs which often had a max indication and limit of 12 knots.
Yea :D It was better than a lap dance from a Dos Exxis Girl... :D Actually I made that up..i don't even know if there are Dos Exxis girls :)

Anyway the boat was setup with two large lcd indicators. one on each side of the mast so everyone trimming could watch the gauges and see the effect of their efforts in real time. It was simple but pretty slick 8) The only thing better might be a Velocity made Good indicator like Daniel (baldbaby) invented. I don't know what that humming sound was, but it was very definite, and felt sorta' like breaking a sound barrier. I glanced and saw we hit 12.8, but then got busy. Marty told me we hit 13

Terry i don't know where the Kiwi is now. I'm sure anxious to see it under sail, too!
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Chip Hindes
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Post by Chip Hindes »

Richard wrote:Wow, Nice find Chip
Self defense search. Only hours earlier I had just pulled my new assym out of the bag for the first time and I had given up trying to figure out which corner was the tack and which was the clew.

In fact you could say I was completely without a clew. Badump bump! :D :D
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Richard O'Brien
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Post by Richard O'Brien »

Here is another one that might help us>
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-main ... naker.html
Notice the bit about using the pennant, and marking your sheets. (with magic markers maybe?) Iwonder if we didn't get knocked down because we were trimed too tight when we gybed, and the mainsail ratchet block locked up?

I noticed the U-20 is really flat on the bottom Chip. They told me that's why it's so fast downwind. If that's the case, I wouldn't be surprised if your X does better than the M with an Assym?
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baldbaby2000
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Post by baldbaby2000 »

Only hours earlier I had just pulled my new assym out of the bag for the first time and I had given up trying to figure out which corner was the tack and which was the clew
The scary thing is that it kind of works either way. I eventually assumed that the Doyle logo is near the tack but I need to verify that.
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Catigale
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Post by Catigale »

In fact you could say I was completely without a clew. Badump bump!
Tacky humour.....

Ive always flown my Doyle with the red stripe at the luff, which does put the Doyle logo near the tack..
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baldbaby2000
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Post by baldbaby2000 »

Ive always flown my Doyle with the red stripe at the luff, which does put the Doyle logo near the tack..
Thanks for that confirmation. I also have the red stripe forward. It still bothers me that the luff doesn't have a continuous curve but a slight s-curve shape. I'm not sure what that means.
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Richard O'Brien
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Post by Richard O'Brien »

i just went out to check my new assym. 'Sure enuff! i had the sheet fastened to the tack :o Glad you brought that up Daniel. :)

it's interesting : ATN says on their website that you can use a symmetrical spinnaker like an Asmmetrical just buy attaching the tack higher up on the forestay with their ATN tacker :?: It does make it seem like the important thing is the depth more than the exact shape, and geting some air under it?
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baldbaby2000
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Post by baldbaby2000 »

Richard,

Sail shape is tricky and although I'm not real good at it, the key is understanding the apparent wind. To fill the spinnaker I have to go off from a dead down wind leg somewhat more than I want. Then the sail fills and the boat picks up speed bringing the apparent wind forwad allowing me to either head down more or sheet in more. If I overdue it then the spinnaker gets blanketed, the boat looses speed, and the apparent wind moves aft causing the spinnaker to collapse even more. It's an unstable system and takes constant adjustment unless the wind and your course are nice and steady.

I do have the ATN tacker but am probably not using it the best way.

Are you still planning on sailing the Leukemia cup?

Daniel
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