Are These Boats Suitable for Bluewater Cruising?

[marsanden]

I suspect power-sailer owners don't sail upwind very much, but should you wish to try it, that centerboard needs to be all the way down if you want to get "close to the wind"..It's what gives your boat it's upwind "bite". If the centerboard is only half-way down, the center of resistance moves aft and the boat will have lee helm, not a good thing..

I think lots of sailors dont like sailing upwind.
Sometime i like it and , after some tests, with 15 kn or more, my Mac sails better with half centerbord down.

Any sailing boat without a rigid keel cant sail less than 50° by the wind. May be the X performance,with his flat hull, is less than 50°. So i think is better a good speed than a cpl of degees less and a slow boat.

[Fairwinds]

Life is full of compromises. For me, the Mac has four powerful benefits that are hard to find in other trailerable sailboats.

1) Ease of launch and recovery. That's a HUGE benefit to me.
2) Extremely lightweight, see above.
3) Capable of operating in very shallow water.
4) Capable of high speed under power, conditions permitting..

The downside as I see it..

1) Undersize rigging prone to failure.
2) Seaworthiness of steering/rudders debatable.
3) Sailing ability compromised by hull design, but not a deal killer..

How am I doing?

What shaft length on the engine works the best? Does the prop stay in the water during rough conditions?

[Frank C]

The rigging is "undersized" only as compared to keelboats of similar length. The 5/32" shrouds are exactly correct for the weight of the boat. Also, they are appropriate to the static stresses imposed on her lighter hull ... remember that upsizing the rigging dramatically increases the static loads to set the rig.

I think we use a 25-inch drive length. Ventilation problems on mine relate to different props, or to extreme chop. When motoring through heavy seas, not sailing or motorsailing, there's no issue because steering to climb the waves keeps the prop down.

[baldbaby2000]

Well frank you learned me at least one thing, that it takes at least 40 hp to allow the ballast tanks to drain..

My 40hp easily drains the ballast. I'm pretty sure a 25hp will do it because our friends have an X with a 25hp and I've motored along side him and I'm sure he was going fast enough to drain it.

[DLT]

I think we use a 25-inch drive length. Ventilation problems on mine relate to different props, or to extreme chop. When motoring through heavy seas, not sailing or motorsailing, there's no issue because steering to climb the waves keeps the prop down.

I have a 20" shaft. That's the standard size for these boats.

15" is considered short shaft and typically used for dinghys.
20" is considered long shaft and is probably the most common.
25" is consiered extra-long shaft and is typically only found on off-shore boats. 25" motors around 50hp are not common.
30" is considered extra-extra-long shaft and is only much less common and only for big deep-vee off-shore boats, with BIG motors.

A 25" shaft would probably be ok for our boats. But, might put too much torque on the motor well, as the prop is 5"lower, giving it a longer moment arm. Also, with a 20", you can have the motor straight up and down, while sitting on the trailer. Very handy if you forget to raise it when recovering the boat. Not so with a 25"...

[Fairwinds]

XL (25") shafts are not common in engines of 50hp or less..But they exist. Honda makes them right down to 10hp and they greatly reduce lifting the prop out of the water if that's a problem. The Mac's engine is tucked in tight against the stern of the boat. On older designs, with engines mounted on a transom bracket, the prop lifts out much easier..

[Chip Hindes]

Changing the position of the centerboard changes the "center of resistance" and will greatly effect how the boat steers, along with sail trim.

I suspect power-sailer owners don't sail upwind very much, but should you wish to try it, that centerboard needs to be all the way down if you want to get "close to the wind"..It's what gives your boat it's upwind "bite". If the centerboard is only half-way down, the center of resistance moves aft and the boat will have lee helm, not a good thing..

Theoretcally true, however:

Sailing a Mac X upwind in a decent wind, you can't get lee helm out of it on a bet. Believe me, I've tried. Pull the centerboard further and futher aft until it begins to fold up into the trunk and no longer provides enough later resistance to stop the boat from skidding sideways, and I still get substantial weather helm.

You'll be fortunate indeed to be able to tack an X through anything better than 110 degrees.

[Fairwinds]

I guess the only way to know for sure exactly how the centerboard is positioned is to swim under the boat and check it..One could pull it down against its stop, then mark the lift line so you had a reference point as to the CB's position under the boat. I have a feeling, with nothing to hold it in place, under normal sailing conditions, the CB will tend to rotate back up into its trunk simply from the speed of the water pushing on it. Every time you tack, the CB is free to pivot rearwards as the side-thrust on it changes from side to side..This might explain their poor upwind performance and lee helm. You are assuming the CB is down all the way and that might not be the case.

[Frank C]

... I have a feeling, with nothing to hold it in place, under normal sailing conditions, the CB will tend to rotate back up into its trunk simply from the speed of the water pushing on it.

You should sail it before giving advice about it. If the board was rotating aft the lift-line would become slack, which is never the case for mine.

And, what makes you "suspect" that powersailers don't sail upwind very much? A google generalization?

[marsanden]

... I have a feeling, with nothing to hold it in place, under normal sailing conditions, the CB will tend to rotate back up into its trunk simply from the speed of the water pushing on it.

as i told in a letter before....this is only your feeling..it doesnt happen .
and yes, any Mac owner knows how much keel is down only watchin the rope.

[waternwaves]

You'll be fortunate indeed to be able to tack an X through anything better than 110 degrees.

you're a better sailer than I am chip if you hold 110, by the time I have enough wind to sail upwind, I have enough waves to generally make it 125-130........ but some of that has to do with my deep baggy main I suppose.....

[DLT]

Sailing a Mac X upwind in a decent wind, you can't get lee helm out of it on a bet. Believe me, I've tried. Pull the centerboard further and futher aft until it begins to fold up into the trunk and no longer provides enough later resistance to stop the boat from skidding sideways, and I still get substantial weather helm.

I get lee helm out of my M, with standard Jib and Main, with the jibsheet turning blocks in the forward (or was that middle?) position.

With a Genny, or even a Jib sheeted like a Genny (back to the rear track/blocks), I'm not surprised. This because, to get some weather helm, I had to move my jibsheet blocks rearward on that forward track, thereby spilling some wind out the top...

[Fairwinds]

Hi waves...It's getting worse and worse! Costa, my old slug with 248 rating, could at least sail at 45 degrees to the wind if she had to..But the powersailor concept pretty much eliminates the need to ever sail upwind, so those skills never get developed with their owners.. Baggy sails, vague knowledge of sail and boat trim and self-positioning centerboards result in 120 degree tacking ability. I also own a Venture 21, swing keel (iron) day-sailor. Properly trimmed, it will easily tack inside 80 degrees...Few boats LIKE sailing this close to the wind, and they will slow down considerably when asked to pinch, but they WILL clear the breakwater without tacking if need be..

A boom vang is very helpful to flatten the sail going upwind. A bagged out main can be re-cut which will improve performance. And when replacing a mainsail, investigate a fully-battened design. It will make your boat come alive. But not as alive as a 90hp E-tec will...

I had a boat like that once...It was called a Bayliner...

[Frank C]

... powersailor concept pretty much eliminates the need to ever sail upwind, so those skills never get developed with their owners.. vague knowledge of sail and boat trim and self-positioning centerboards result in 120 degree tacking ability.
..
A boom vang is very helpful to flatten the sail going upwind. .. But not as alive as a 90hp E-tec will... I had a boat like that once...It was called a Bayliner...

You've missed the point, grasshopper. Having 50+hp means that one can choose to sail upwind, or not. This provides ample opportunity to learn sail and boat trim and still be home in time for dinner. The use of vang sheeting has been debated here at least a dozen times. Search for it, maybe even you can learn something.

BTW, the powersailer's propensity for wx-helm has more to do with hull shape than aft centerboard. You'd probably figure that out after a couple of weeks. But the more I read, the less likely it seems this powersailer would add any value for you.

[Catigale]

I think Ive done 110 with a main and genny on an but sure wouldnt sign up to show it to anyone..I think you can do lot better with a jib - I really should add one to my sail locker for sailing in heavier air.

That freeboard is the enemy in the and compared to other trailer sailors....dont ever get into a tack dual with the old 26S or 26D....