Are These Boats Suitable for Bluewater Cruising?

[Greg]

Here is a link to the thread containing the factory video. It should answer a lot of your questions.

Video

[richandlori]

Our plans changed to long term cruising. In our thinking wasn’t the concept of “Going Blue Water” but wanting a boat that could handle it. So we sold the Mac and upgraded. Would I have been perfectly happy doing Baja and the Sea of Cortez in the Mac? You Bet! I would do it in a heart beat. Would it be as "sea kind" in heavy chop as a real weighted keel boat? Nope, but if you know that going in then no big deal. BUT….add my two kids and wife to the crew list, and something bigger was called for. But if it was just me and my wife….we would add a REAL MARINE HEAD to the Mac and never look back as MANY have cruised for years in the Sea in a 26ft boat! The world is owned by the “you can’t do that” type of people….and the best thing you can do is waive to them as you sail away from the dock.

[albion]

Fairwinds. Go to sailing links pages. Look up Conch Cruisers, they sail blue waters. They go to Bahamas, Dry Tortugas among other places.

[Night Sailor]

Some of us have moved down to the X from larger keel boats as our cruising waters changed with our location. The X is a fine coastal cruiser, any coast in the world. Long passages offshore to cross oceans would be really dicey if perfect weather were not available the whole way. It's lightly built but well engineered, and well constructed where it counts. Numerous couples have cruised thousands of miles in Xs.

LIke any sailboat, big or small, you sail when you can, motor when you can't or just don't want to. Lght or heavy air, with the X you've got great options.

[Fairwinds]

Its not all fun and games..Costa was anchored for the day near our house..A matter of convenience. The wind changed, heavy seas rolled in, the deck cleats tore out ..Pictures like this are not often seen in yachting magazines..

Whoops, they won't let me post the URL yet, I'm too new. Have to wait a few days.. You can go to the parkerdawson web site and look in "proud owners" Costa wreck..

[Theo]

Fairwinds,

Might I make a suggestion? You have some time before making a decision. If at all possible, visit a dealer, that has either an M or an X boat for sale. (real hard not to spell that sail!!) Typically the boat you see ata dealers will be in very good condition. If it meets your needs great. If not, you just answered your question. It will also give you a baseline on what a reasonably pimped for sale Mac should look like.

Final caveat. Beware buying a boat that is 7 years old with only 100 hours on it. We though we had a steal when we got our 2000 Mac in 2004 with only 50 hours on it. They do deteriorate just sitting there. Mostly from lack of love. You will have alot of stuff to go over.

Theo

[Catigale]

fairwinds - send a PM to any Mod and we can post the link for you...

[Fairwinds]

Thanks everyone, great information. Good idea about finding a local dealer and checking out a Mac hands on..I have since found several more within a day's drive of Denver where we are now..The Vallarta boat is bare bones, little optional equipment. I have located several others, loaded, for the same or less money..

Many feel they "need" a 50hp engine, and boats equipped with one fetch top dollar. By my experience on the water tells me there will be few times sea conditions will allow the boat to be planed, so a 15-25 hp engine might be a better, more realistic choice for ocean sailing. I suspect an extra-long shaft will be a big plus too from what I have learned..The smaller engines are much easier to deal with and fuel burn is greatly reduced..I don't go water skiing much anymore..The Sea Of Cortez does get "smooth as glass" occasionally, but those are rare moments...

Add a three w's and a dot com to the parkerdawson find the "proud owners" forum to see the sad end of Costa..

[marsanden]

My experience on sailing a mac is less than 1 year long. But i have had a nice coastal cruise with my family on it and it was safety and fun. Before owning a mac i have had, for more than 20years, 4 different keel sailing boats. I hate , when no wind, powering at 6-8 kn . Too boring and, under our sunny sun,no safety. thats why i choice a mac.

I sail in the southern mediterranean see ( Cilento Coast ) . Usually between 1 to 10 miles far by the coast. I think that sailing with no more than 20kn could be safe with a mac. With more wind, and with waves, could be more difficult with a mac than with a keel boat.

Last winter a 14 years old english boy sailed across the atlantic ocean on a Tide 28, a boat built with tha same principles of a mac ( ballasts and similar). It means that the principles are right.

On the other hand i think you must consider that the mac is a wery cheap boat so lots of solution are done in economy. It costs less then half price of a Tide28.

In europe the mac sailing certificate is B ( it means see status 6). Tide certificate is C ( more than status 6). So, if i could suggest you something......dont stress your sailing, dont ask too much to your mac, and have fun with it.

[waternwaves]

1) ...."are these boats mostly lake boats suitable only for sheltered water....."?

Most people are not going to sail with you 20 kts of wind with the occasional 30-35 gusts, and mulitple days, the motion is exhilarating, but tiring. You need a storm jib and either a deep reefed main or a smaller stormsail.

However my friend....
that does not appear to be the normal winds for that area.


2) ..."can they be trusted not to kill you if sailed in not so sheltered water. ?...) they will not kill you, but you may occasionally be on deck handling the boat more than you would have been in a slow heavy keeled snail. When the weather gets snotty, you would be suprised how fast a mac moves downwind. even with a drogue.

But 80 miles.... hull, a few hours and you are done.


3) ..."Can the standing rigging take a pounding without falling apart?" yes!!, she breaks no more often than any other boat I have been on.

and I have been on my mac and other small boats in winds in excess of 70 mph, and hailstones the size of golfballs, things may break, but they do not sink. Carry spares. Dont worry about sleeping through all that either. Ain't going to happen!!!!!!!


4) ..."living aboard for as long as 10 days..." Fine in a warm climate for 1 or 2, if you are with a woman, in a cooler climate....or the north pacific, in bad weather or without a full enclosed dodger... forget it. Take the following test. Can your partner be around just you for 10 days and not around anyone else if you are not on a boat? It has very little to do with the boat, it has everything to do with what the other person wants in life. Listen VERY VERY closely to how and what they are saying.

I have been through this very same issue several times, and it always amazes me what partners do NOT say that turns out to be so important.


5).."the ability to travel at 20 knots if need " Not going to happen with a 50 hp motor........That is plain and simple hype.

6)''''But I'm not willing to endure shoddy workmanship or poor design""

I sail mine in the Straights of juan de fu@, and georgia, westside of Vancouver Island, and Hecate straits. She can be sailed safely there, she can also be knocked down LIKE ANY SAILBOAT if you make too many consecutive mistakes.

Eveyone has their own definition of shoddy workmanship. Check over the boat, determine if you have dangerous mods, or poor workmanship. That can happen on any vessel. I can show you several Beneteau and J boats with shoddy fiberglass and wiring. The design is simple, easy, and not particularly efficient. But like every boat...there are tradeoffs... (can you standup in a J boat? can you affor a Beneteau or Hunter?

Good luck,

Life is too damn short.

[baldbaby2000]

The fact that you can beach the Mac would be very nice with all those sandy beaches.

[Fairwinds]

Our old boat, the Midship 25, was also beachable . The keel and rudder could be retracted. But because of the tides, we seldom used that feature. We usually towed a small hard dinghy. The Midship had a 10hp diesel, why people think THAT's a wonderful thing I don't know. Maybe in 1973 when Costa was built it was, but with todays modern outboards, on a boat this size, I would rather have the extra room and not have the noise and vibration in the cabin. For us, staying out 10 days was not unusual at all. Food and water were the limiting factors. Costa carried 50 gallons of fresh water. There are very few marinas on the mainland coast of Mexico above Mazatlan. There's San Carlos, (Guaymas) and that's it all the way up to Pto. Penasco, 200 miles. There is a ramp at Kino Bay, but no marina. The coastline north of San Carlos, for 45 miles, is PRIME gunkholing country, with numerous sheltered bays and anchorages and deserted beaches accessible only by boat..Because of the mountainous terrain, there is no shore road along this coast. Just undeveloped wilderness beaches and rocky inlets. This is desert country, similar landscape to Lake Powel.. Think watermaker. Forget the DVD player, and wide screen TV and cell-phone. HF marine or Ham radio is the only link to the outside world. A Satellite radio is nice to have..

[Divecoz]

Fairwainds allow me to inquire about saftey on the water and on shore, in remote isolated areas/.
Not weather or shallow water but of the human kind . Is there need for any concern?

[Frank C]

Fairwinds, I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to help you make a realistic assessment of your options when considering the "powersailing design."

... Many feel they "need" a 50hp engine, and boats equipped with one fetch top dollar.

It's true that Macs with less than a 50 hp sell for less, a valid "market judgment" of real value. Powersailers deliver hybrid funtionality, so they necessarily deliver less sailing prowess than pure sailing vessels. When a Mac is fitted with a 25 hp, you willingly accept the sailing compromise and forego the much of the powering versatility offered by the hull design.

... By my experience on the water tells me there will be few times sea conditions will allow the boat to be planed, so a 15-25 hp engine might be a better, more realistic choice for ocean sailing.

Choosing the state of the ballast tank (full or empty) is an important option in exploiting the Mac's versatility. Cruising with ballast empty gives a much drier ride and it's much faster, or more economical, or both. To empty the ballast tank requires at least 25 hp, and in come conditions you probably need a 40 to do so effectively. Once you choose a 40 hp, you've spent most of the weight & cost penalties so that you might as well have chosen a 50.

... I suspect an extra-long shaft will be a big plus too from what I have learned

Keeping the prop underwater is a complicated topic. Are you powering or powersailing? Are you trying to orient the hull to keep climbing swells? I've had very few instances where my big outboard ventilates the prop, but I can almost assure you that your existing experience base (a heavy boat with small outboard) is almost surely invalid for judging prop depth on a Mac's hull.

... The smaller engines are much easier to deal with
.... and fuel burn is greatly reduced...

Fallacies, both. Is it easier to deal with a small outboard that cannot attach to the wheel steering system? Isn't it very convenient to deal with a heavy outboard via electric tilt and trim? Isn't it very nice to have good generating wattage? As mentioned earlier, isn't it important to empty the ballast tank?

Fuel burn relates to horsepower employed! ( ... not the extra horses resting in the barn.)

• Speed per horsepower relates to weight of the boat.
• Weight of the boat is enormously variable, eh?
• A fully laden Mac powering at 6 knots requires X horsepower, regardless of the size of motor.
• Those X horsepower (regardless of engine size) require a certain fuel burn.
• That fuel burn is essentially the same in either 25 or 50 hp outboard.
• A 50 can dump 1400 lbs of hull weight, then maintain same speed with less power, or use same power to go faster.

So ... a very important versatility factor ... an empty ballast tank reduces weight by 1400 pounds! A 50 hp can maintain target speed (6 knots) at a lower hp setting, or alternately, it can go 8 knots or 11 knots, even in swell & chop, getting home lots sooner.

... The Sea Of Cortez does get "smooth as glass" occasionally, but those are rare moments...

Those rare moments, you can either sail at 2 knots vmg, powersail at 3 kn. (vmg), or motor home at 15 knots (vmg). Versatility is the Macgregor's strong suit.

And, the Mac's speed potential is an important safety feature in some conditions ... e.g. when conditions permit, speed to port for a medical emergency or to outrun a storm can be lifesaving options.

[pokerrick1]

The fact that you can beach the Mac would be very nice with all those sandy beaches.

But watch the tides

Rick