Does the emergency lanyard cut-off switch have any play in it?
I have worked on many machines that needed to be retired and have found that sometimes the switches are wearing out and will not hold in position. Try this, Start the motor and start pulling down on the emergency lanyard cut-off switch. See when it cuts off the motor. If it is right away, it may be your problem.
Just ask mike
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aya16
- Admiral
- Posts: 1362
- Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:29 am
- Location: LONG BEACH CALIF Mac M 04 WHITE
a vent on the gas tank will act the same way if only opened a little bit.
by the time you restart the tank will have let in enough air in to work right.
but you cant rule out electrical either but if it happens all the time and at high rpm it doesnt sound like a loose connection more a computer problem
but with trouble shooting we should always check the easy stuff first.
to take the cut off switch out of the mix just bypass it, not sure if the two wires that go to it need to be connected or disconnected so the engine will run, but disconnect the two wires to the switch try and start the motor, if the motor wont start tape the two wires together then start it. run it like before if the problem goes away then you know its the switch.
for the gas tank, unscrew the gas cap most of the way and run the engine to create the problem, if it wont shut down then its the vent on the tank. Only have a partial filled tank to do this or gas will slosh all over the place. Another clue its the tank is to look at the primer bulb when the problem starts is it collapsed?
also you never said anything about the fuel pump, that will act like
the problem you have, if the fuel pump membrane has a hole in it it will lose its pressure and suck air at full throttle, but will still work at lower rpm.
and does the engine have oil injection? is the tank topped off? or the float in the tank sticking? low oil warning will shut the engine down.
lets us know what you find...
by the time you restart the tank will have let in enough air in to work right.
but you cant rule out electrical either but if it happens all the time and at high rpm it doesnt sound like a loose connection more a computer problem
but with trouble shooting we should always check the easy stuff first.
to take the cut off switch out of the mix just bypass it, not sure if the two wires that go to it need to be connected or disconnected so the engine will run, but disconnect the two wires to the switch try and start the motor, if the motor wont start tape the two wires together then start it. run it like before if the problem goes away then you know its the switch.
for the gas tank, unscrew the gas cap most of the way and run the engine to create the problem, if it wont shut down then its the vent on the tank. Only have a partial filled tank to do this or gas will slosh all over the place. Another clue its the tank is to look at the primer bulb when the problem starts is it collapsed?
also you never said anything about the fuel pump, that will act like
the problem you have, if the fuel pump membrane has a hole in it it will lose its pressure and suck air at full throttle, but will still work at lower rpm.
and does the engine have oil injection? is the tank topped off? or the float in the tank sticking? low oil warning will shut the engine down.
lets us know what you find...
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Lease
- First Officer
- Posts: 290
- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:07 pm
- Location: Canberra Oz; 1995 26X "MACMAC" Tohatsu 50
Thanks all, I'll be testing it next weekend (weather permitting).
Got another problem now, that I just don't understand. First the confession - after I purchased the boat, the brakes appeared to be working, so they went on the back-burner as far as interest was concerned. I did trailer, bearings, and tyres, before looking again at the brakes. When I did, I found a very small amount of water, but no brake fluid in the resevoir. Not good. So, I pulled the master cylinder off, pulled it apart (noting the way it was assembled, cleaned it, and put it back together. It doesn't work.
I don't have a strong knowledge of brake systems, but enough to know the basic principles, and how to bleed the brakes. The problem is that this thing will not now pump fluid, and I can't understand why. I have tripple checked the assembly and confirmed that apart from being logically correct, the parts sequence can only go together one way. For the purposes of description, they are (we are talking about the Master Cylinder fitted as standard to the Titan series 60 hitch):
Spring, with cap end towards piston end
Rubber cup, with flat end towards piston end (feather end towards brake line)
Piston, with feather seal at actuator end
Circlip
Actuator
Apart from that, I ran a 1.5mm drill through thre metering hole in the resevoir (appeared to be blocked); cleaned the resevoir and piston bore, made sure that all other appertures were clear.
When I pump the actuator now, I get air and a tiny spray of fluid out the other end.
Now I can't move onto the next step,which was to open the bleeds and pump fluid through to see if there is contamination in the lines, because I can't get the bloody stuff pumping.
It all looks so idiot-proof, why can't this idiot see whatever fundamental thing is wrong?!?!
Got another problem now, that I just don't understand. First the confession - after I purchased the boat, the brakes appeared to be working, so they went on the back-burner as far as interest was concerned. I did trailer, bearings, and tyres, before looking again at the brakes. When I did, I found a very small amount of water, but no brake fluid in the resevoir. Not good. So, I pulled the master cylinder off, pulled it apart (noting the way it was assembled, cleaned it, and put it back together. It doesn't work.
I don't have a strong knowledge of brake systems, but enough to know the basic principles, and how to bleed the brakes. The problem is that this thing will not now pump fluid, and I can't understand why. I have tripple checked the assembly and confirmed that apart from being logically correct, the parts sequence can only go together one way. For the purposes of description, they are (we are talking about the Master Cylinder fitted as standard to the Titan series 60 hitch):
Spring, with cap end towards piston end
Rubber cup, with flat end towards piston end (feather end towards brake line)
Piston, with feather seal at actuator end
Circlip
Actuator
Apart from that, I ran a 1.5mm drill through thre metering hole in the resevoir (appeared to be blocked); cleaned the resevoir and piston bore, made sure that all other appertures were clear.
When I pump the actuator now, I get air and a tiny spray of fluid out the other end.
Now I can't move onto the next step,which was to open the bleeds and pump fluid through to see if there is contamination in the lines, because I can't get the bloody stuff pumping.
It all looks so idiot-proof, why can't this idiot see whatever fundamental thing is wrong?!?!
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aya16
- Admiral
- Posts: 1362
- Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:29 am
- Location: LONG BEACH CALIF Mac M 04 WHITE
ok you want to bleed the master cyl. on the bench before you install it
you do this by filling the cyl with fluid and pushing the plunger in many times with a large screw driver. you can use an old hose with a fitting to pump it back into the res.
the other way and a little more simple would be to buy a brake bleeder pump/ vacume and vac. out from the farthest wheel from the master cyl.
that would be either wheel on the trailer. making sure the master cyl. doesnt run out of fluid as you do this. Then vac the other wheel cyl.
an air hose from the bleeder to the master cyl. could be used to blow junk out of the line, just disconnect from the master cyl and wheel cyl.
hope this helps....Mike
you do this by filling the cyl with fluid and pushing the plunger in many times with a large screw driver. you can use an old hose with a fitting to pump it back into the res.
the other way and a little more simple would be to buy a brake bleeder pump/ vacume and vac. out from the farthest wheel from the master cyl.
that would be either wheel on the trailer. making sure the master cyl. doesnt run out of fluid as you do this. Then vac the other wheel cyl.
an air hose from the bleeder to the master cyl. could be used to blow junk out of the line, just disconnect from the master cyl and wheel cyl.
hope this helps....Mike
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Lease
- First Officer
- Posts: 290
- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:07 pm
- Location: Canberra Oz; 1995 26X "MACMAC" Tohatsu 50
Mike,
Getting back to you on the cause of my engine shutting down at WOT.
This is embarrassing - imagine a lot of cringing here:
We had a long weekend here last week and I packed the family in for a three-day river cruise - motor only.
Long story short, I figured what was going wrong. When I did the carbs, and carried out all the book adjustments (throttle sync, timing, oil injection), I got the bloody oil injection around the wrong way!
The valve connection rotates. I followed the book to give the correct amount of rotation by adjusting the connecting rod. The problem is that one must first rotate the valve past TDC before connecting the rod. The book doesn't mention this, and I didn't do it. So my oil injection was adjusted for half flow at idle, and moved progressively towards CLOSED as the throttle was increased. Lucky I didn't lose my engine.
After rotating past TDC and then connecting and adjusting, it's a different engine. Noticably smoother at all RPM and it now goes out to 5200 and 14 knots.
I feel like a dill but am a bit anoyed at both the manual , AND the way the thing is set up. The valve has a return spring that returns it towards closed. Thinking back on the days when I was involved in aircraft, anything that was a critical item, such as this, would have been set up so that a mechanical failure would mean that it would return to a failsafe position. On a constant-speed propeller for example, a failure of a pitch regulator would result in the prop moving to full fine pitch so that it could still fly OK. I would expect that the spring on the oil injection to return to a full open position, rather than a closed position in order to avoid a catastrophic secondary failure.
So when looking at the way this was set up, I was still inclined to believe that the rotation for more oil was counter-clockwise with spring rotation, not clockwise against spring rotation.
I hope posting this will help anybody else from avoiding my error.
Cheers, and thanks for the advice.
Getting back to you on the cause of my engine shutting down at WOT.
This is embarrassing - imagine a lot of cringing here:
We had a long weekend here last week and I packed the family in for a three-day river cruise - motor only.
Long story short, I figured what was going wrong. When I did the carbs, and carried out all the book adjustments (throttle sync, timing, oil injection), I got the bloody oil injection around the wrong way!
The valve connection rotates. I followed the book to give the correct amount of rotation by adjusting the connecting rod. The problem is that one must first rotate the valve past TDC before connecting the rod. The book doesn't mention this, and I didn't do it. So my oil injection was adjusted for half flow at idle, and moved progressively towards CLOSED as the throttle was increased. Lucky I didn't lose my engine.
After rotating past TDC and then connecting and adjusting, it's a different engine. Noticably smoother at all RPM and it now goes out to 5200 and 14 knots.
I feel like a dill but am a bit anoyed at both the manual , AND the way the thing is set up. The valve has a return spring that returns it towards closed. Thinking back on the days when I was involved in aircraft, anything that was a critical item, such as this, would have been set up so that a mechanical failure would mean that it would return to a failsafe position. On a constant-speed propeller for example, a failure of a pitch regulator would result in the prop moving to full fine pitch so that it could still fly OK. I would expect that the spring on the oil injection to return to a full open position, rather than a closed position in order to avoid a catastrophic secondary failure.
So when looking at the way this was set up, I was still inclined to believe that the rotation for more oil was counter-clockwise with spring rotation, not clockwise against spring rotation.
I hope posting this will help anybody else from avoiding my error.
Cheers, and thanks for the advice.
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Frank C
I'm pretty sure Stephen was referring to Mike's original premise, shown just above. The thread is long and includes many topics, but none are highlighted by titles. Stephen was suggesting to split the thread into several titles like:aya16 wrote:Im starting this thread to help anyone that wants to learn more about the basic stuff to help save a trip and save some money. ask any question you might not be sure about and I will, and others Im sure will share many long years of frustrating times we over came.
The outboard engine 101
the mac 101
getting along with your wife 101 ( need a teacher for this one im no good at it)
each subject will be taken into a seperate thread so as to save in order for others to use. Maybe all those years I spent on this kind of thing will help someone else. I have gone from changing spark plugs in a fouled jet ski, to total rebuild of a 455 olds jet boat engine in a camp site. removed and replaced with the help of a couple of come alongs and big ooow tree limb
- ask Mike - battery charging
- ask Mike - Honda prop
- ask Mike - Miss at WOT
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Compromise
- First Officer
- Posts: 213
- Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:44 am
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
- Location: Orlando, Florida. Boat in Cocoa.
Mike,
I'm a big fan of this thread....
had your help before and am in need once again. My issues are similar to Lease but with a 4 stroke!
Yamaha 50 '02.
At the start of the season, I knew I had old gas with Stabil mixed in it and just to be cautious I siphoned the old gas out and started fresh.
Engine was harder to start than usual even with fresh gas. I finally used engine starter to get her going and this worked, however it kept cutting out. After a while it started to run better. I figured this was because it had consumed whatever gas was in the carb and was now on the fresh gas.
After about ten minutes of running I decided we were 'good' to back out of the slip. As soon as I put her in reverse she cut out. Tried again several times and out we went. When going from reverse to forward had the same problem.
To date what has been done to try to remedy the problem:
Made sure the cap on the fuel tank was open.
Carbs have been cleaned.
New fuel line and gas bulb
New fuel filter.
New fuel pump
New plugs. The problem still exists
On reading the previous posts, I'll try testing the gas tank for air leaks. It runs fine until I put her in gear..... If I manage to get her in gear, it runs sporadic until about 2500 rpms, then runs clean??
As always, I appreciate any feedback.
I'm a big fan of this thread....
had your help before and am in need once again. My issues are similar to Lease but with a 4 stroke!Yamaha 50 '02.
At the start of the season, I knew I had old gas with Stabil mixed in it and just to be cautious I siphoned the old gas out and started fresh.
Engine was harder to start than usual even with fresh gas. I finally used engine starter to get her going and this worked, however it kept cutting out. After a while it started to run better. I figured this was because it had consumed whatever gas was in the carb and was now on the fresh gas.
After about ten minutes of running I decided we were 'good' to back out of the slip. As soon as I put her in reverse she cut out. Tried again several times and out we went. When going from reverse to forward had the same problem.
To date what has been done to try to remedy the problem:
Made sure the cap on the fuel tank was open.
Carbs have been cleaned.
New fuel line and gas bulb
New fuel filter.
New fuel pump
New plugs. The problem still exists
On reading the previous posts, I'll try testing the gas tank for air leaks. It runs fine until I put her in gear..... If I manage to get her in gear, it runs sporadic until about 2500 rpms, then runs clean??
As always, I appreciate any feedback.
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Compromise
- First Officer
- Posts: 213
- Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:44 am
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
- Location: Orlando, Florida. Boat in Cocoa.
Great suggestion Frank. I tried this yesterday. No luck.Frank C wrote: You mentioned replacing the lines - assume that means fuel lines. I have an even easier suggestion. Your problem could be simply that the engine is sucking air at higher rpms. Try removing the QR fitting at the fuel tank. Then dunk the bare end of fuel hose into the fuel supply. In less than 5 mins you can determine if there's an air leak at the fuel tank - and it sure sounds like there could be.
The frustrating part of all of this is, after completing all of the above mentioned maint., the engine starts better than it ever has before. It barely turns a complete rotation and she's purring(grinning) like a cheshire cat!
I handed it off to a mechanic after I figured it needed the carbs cleaned and rebuilt. It has him stumped also. He also checked the accelerator pump and all seemed fine. My last hope is his buddy who is a Yamaha mechanic, will have the answer for us. I'll keep you posted.
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Frank C
An air leak in the fuel delivery system will usually impair operation only at WOT. As the engine runs faster, vastly increasing suction from the fuel pump begins sucking air. This can happen even though the fuel delivery is fine at lower rpms - since lower pump demand doesn't yet pull air through the old fittings.Compromise wrote: . . . On reading the previous posts, I'll try testing the gas tank for air leaks. It runs fine until I put her in gear..... If I manage to get her in gear, it runs sporadic until about 2500 rpms, then runs clean??
By contrast, your problem is that it runs okay after 2500 rpms, just not in that lower to mid-range engine speed. That's the opposite sort of problem.
Your case sounds like any "initial load" is stalling the engine. It seems as if the carb's idle circuit is working okay but it can't skip into the run mode. But then, once past that problem, the jets and venturi system is feeding higher rpms just fine ???
Faulty accelerator pumps, leaking gaskets, float bowl settings (among others) can cause this sort of problem. Anyhow, sounds like you do need a carb expert.
Hi Mike
I recently bought my 97X and both rudders have a few small impact dings along the leading edge. I tried to search the Archives but didn’t have any luck on repairing rudders. They look about the size of a child's bite and of varying depths and lengths to about ½ inch.
I did some fiberglass work in the past so may I ask what do you think is the best way to patch this kind of ding? Also is it possible to re-enforce this area with something like a smaller version of “Bow Guard” to reduce the chance of it happening again or worse?
BTW I think one of the nicest things about a Mac is to have such experienced knowledgeable and helpful Mac owners to learn from.
To date I have build a dual boxed 12 fuse with 0,1 & 2 power switch and WM Battery Combiner from your suggestions. Even the professional I had hook it all up, liked it and agreed it fit the aft galley jump seat battery well like it was made for it! It even comes out & ties back to the SS post so it is easily accessed if needed for repairs.
Mostly from what I have seen & read in the Mod’s page and in this forum and then came up with a design that fit what I had! The pictures you post make the difference and hopefully I will soon contribute my own for "Review"!
So I am open to specific suggestions and greatly appreciate all of your information because sadly rudder repair is a weak spot of mine!
Thank you all in advanced!
MUW
I recently bought my 97X and both rudders have a few small impact dings along the leading edge. I tried to search the Archives but didn’t have any luck on repairing rudders. They look about the size of a child's bite and of varying depths and lengths to about ½ inch.
I did some fiberglass work in the past so may I ask what do you think is the best way to patch this kind of ding? Also is it possible to re-enforce this area with something like a smaller version of “Bow Guard” to reduce the chance of it happening again or worse?
BTW I think one of the nicest things about a Mac is to have such experienced knowledgeable and helpful Mac owners to learn from.
To date I have build a dual boxed 12 fuse with 0,1 & 2 power switch and WM Battery Combiner from your suggestions. Even the professional I had hook it all up, liked it and agreed it fit the aft galley jump seat battery well like it was made for it! It even comes out & ties back to the SS post so it is easily accessed if needed for repairs.
Mostly from what I have seen & read in the Mod’s page and in this forum and then came up with a design that fit what I had! The pictures you post make the difference and hopefully I will soon contribute my own for "Review"!
So I am open to specific suggestions and greatly appreciate all of your information because sadly rudder repair is a weak spot of mine!
Thank you all in advanced!
MUW