spinnakers again: Assymetric or symmetric

[c130king]

Stephen,

Once this pole is deployed are you still able to sheet in on the Genoa at all or is it set it and forget it?

Where would one find one of these poles and how much?

Thanks,
Jim

[eric3a]

..

[T Chapman]

I had something to post here but when I tried submit it I got this spam message so I'm off to else where!!

[Frank C]

I had something to post here but when I tried submit it I got this spam message so I'm off to else where!!

Our SPAM assaults have been extensive and exasperating, as a thousand-plus members would attest. The SPAM testing software cannot be perfect, but it's a very temporary imposition on every new member. There's a post in the Website news that explains it.

Sorry to hear you gave up so easily. We'll miss your ideas.

[March]

John:

So going downwind with a spin, you averaged, say, 11 kts. With the genoa, same conditions and same configuration, you would would get something around 7. That a significant difference of almost 75 %. So it would be worth getting a spin for downwind runs.

Duane: you seem in favor of the asym, even though you currently run a genoa. My question is, do you find an equally significant increase in speed when you use the genoa wing to wing, as compared to, say, using a jib/main configuration? It depends on the wind, of course, but would it be something like gettinng five knots rather than four, or maybe six rather than four? I am trying to figure out whether I should replace the jub with a genoa, but it seems that it would be better to get a spin instead of a genoa. The best configuration seems to be, a genoa and a spin as an option when going downwind, but I can't afford both.

I have no experience with either spins or a genoa and I am trying to learn on the fly

[baldbaby2000]

Richard,

I raced a series of races on Lake of the Woods with an asymmetrical spinnaker. I've had a lot of previous experience on an E-scow with a symmetrical spinnaker. The handicap cost in my opinion didn't make the Mac spinnaker worth it. The Mac 26M gets overpowered easy and it's a lot tougher to maintain control with the spinnaker. Another thing I was never able to perfect is sailing on a broad reach. It was difficult to sail a proper downwind VMG course without significantly blanketing the spinnaker with the main. Going dead downwind it's probably OK if you pole it out.

Even with the genoa I find the best downwind VMG is when the genoa is partially blanketed by the main. This point of sail is easier to deal with on faster boats because the apparent wind moves aft as the boat picks up speed and eliminates the blanketing effect.

A symmetrical I think would be better but it takes more control lines and more work to gybe and tack.

Daniel

[eric3a]

..

[Catigale]

This point of sail is easier to deal with on faster boats because the apparent wind moves aft as the boat picks up speed and eliminates the blanketing effect.

Sounds like a perpetual motion machine in the works...

[/quote]

[Catigale]

Jim - sorry, missed your question above

$122 at Defender

THe 6/12 ADJ is a bit small for the 150 genny, but its a 2x leap in price for the next size, so many of us use the 6/12 version

Your choice of spear or clip for the tip type. Spear type 'spears' the clew ring (name comes from the technique originating in Brittany IIRC) and the clip type attaches to the sheet. I like the clip type, personally.

You mount the ring on the mast at clew height, then swing the mast end of the pole UP (not down) to clip it on to the ring, so that when/if it falls it doesnt break the ring off the mast. Forgot who posted that valuable tip here, sorry.

Per Eric, who has probably forgotten more about sailing than I know, you can make adjustments to the whisker pole length and also trim the sheet , albeit a limited amount, once you have poled your genny/jib out.


Broken whisker poles can be fitted with ends and turned into boat hooks too....



On edit - patched link to Defender - actual product link wouldnt parse

[AWKIII]

Richard and Daniel,

Are either of you thinking about racing the Leukemia Cup at Chatfield?

If so, I have set aside one suit of our new R-5000 Performance sails for demo purposes if either of you are interested.

There are four sails:

Performance Mainsail

Dimension-Polyant PE-10 Laminate
2 Full Battens
2 Standard Battens
Reef
Shape Stripes
Foot Shelf
Maximum Girth

98% Genoa

Dimension-Polyant PE-15 Laminate
Shape Stripes

150% Genoa

Dimension-Polyant PE-10 Laminate
Spreader Patches
Shape Stripes

Spinnaker

.75 oz. Contender Nylon
Tri-Radial Asymmetrical
369 square feet.

I will be there but sailing something else (hehehehe). Would love to see what the sails look like, how they perform and your impression. How about a broaching contest?

Message me if interested.

Art

[Catigale]

Eric - if you tied off the spin sheet would that have let you let go and saved your skin?? Would that be a good practice (like jam knotting your genny/job sheets) to keep the sheets from going to the wind??

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

March,

My boat came with a the genoa so that is all I know, but If I were able to choose I think I would go with a jib for the X rather than the genoa. Or at least a smaller genoa, maybe a 135. My general feeling based on 6 years with the boat is that the 150 is more than you need. It's only in really light air that you need all the main and all the 150 genoa. In any decent wind you will find you are reducing sail area to keep the boat on it's feet. It will sail faster level with less canvas than heeled over with all the canvas flying.

My choice would be a main with at least 2 full battens and two reef points (and much less of a full shape than the stock main) and a 100% furling jib for up wind work. Add an asymetric spin for reaching and running. Idealy I would have a spin with a wire in the luff so I could mount it on a second drum and swivel ahead of the headstay furler and furl the spin as well rather than mess with a sock.

Where's the demo sails to test in the Northwest? I can take lots of beautiful pictures of them for you (although I need a smaller X main).

[beene]

In any decent wind you will find you are reducing sail area to keep the boat on it's feet.

I was thinking, instead of changing to the Jib, I have an extra set of block I leave in place for the Jib size, ie with the Genny on a furler, I would furl her in, change the sheets from the outboard blocks to the Jib blocks, then unfurl just enough to be about the size of the Jib.

What do you think?

Anyone already try that?

[March]

Thanks, Duane. That's what I thought too. I already have a furling jib and it works just fine. A 150% genoa would probably add a little speed, but when going against a strong wind, it would probably have to be furled--so it would work like the jib I already have.
Now running down wind the boat would benefit even more from a spin than from a genoa--so a spin it shall be.
I was really surprised how uncooperative the Mac is in a strong cross wind. It heels a lot, and doesn't seem to advance all that fast. It seems to work much better against the wind.

[parrothead]

change the sheets from the outboard blocks to the Jib blocks

Why not simply slide the blocks off the genoa tracks and onto the jib tracks? No need to remove the sheets from the blocks.

FYI - We have the standard RF jib and the asym - seems to be the best combination as we typically have either too much or too little wind for a genoa. We also added an intermediate reef point to the main, find it very useful.