Suzuki DF70 - Installation & Transom

[Derrick]

Hi Everyone. Longtime time lurker to the board here and first time posting. I have scoured through this board for hours learning lots about Macs (still much to learn) and my wife and I have bought a 07M from Bill at Boats4sail. As has been posted many times, Bill has been excellant to work with so far. Thanks to everyone for your help in making the first decision.

Now the next decision is powering up the boat. I have read lots of info on the debates of bigger HP motors, weight to HP, types and manufacturs etc. I am leaning towards two choices. An E-Tec 60 or the DF70. Suzuki's best salesmen Frank C has me leaning towards the Suzuki right now, although I have swung back and forth many times. Also the 6 year warranty available right now on the DF70 is also carrying some weight.

I was talking with a Suzuki dealer this weekend (about 1 hour from home) who I feel has a very reasonable price and gave me some confidence in the services they provide and the motor. One concern I have is that I do not believe they have made an installation on a Mac before.

A few questions:

When installing the DF70 is any transom reenforcement required or recommended? From what I have read through various postings it seems the M boat will support the DF70 fine without any extra support. I read some postings that recommend a aluminum support, but I have also read where this may also cause problems.

Since the dealer has not worked on a Mac, what concerns / installation tips should I address with him before carrying out the installation, so we won't be disappointed or the dealer surprised by things he may encounter when installing the motor that he did not expect.

[Matt19020]

Derrick I plan on mounting my new DF70 Suzuki in the next two weeks and I am planning on using 1/4 alluminum plate to sandwich the transom when I mount the motor. I also considered the Etec but decided on the Suzuki based on price, EFI, the 6 yr warranty and being a four stroke also I feel it may possibly have a higher resale value. The Etec does look like a good motor and it would have been my choice if the Suzuki was not available to me. Everyone has thier own critera on what they look for in a motor thats why there is many to choose from. I am sure there are many others to choose from and I dont want to start a blog about which are better...at the end of the day you are the one who needs to be comfortable with your purchase and the reasons you did so.
On another note I also purchased from Bill and I am in the middle of doing my mods including AC/DC panel, permanent head, cockpit speakers, gps aand depth I will post as I finish the Mods if you need any more specifics contact me......

[Rich Walton]

I would go with the E-Tec. I had a 2002 suzuki it poped a head gasket in year 4 (well in year 3 but the motor was out of the country) so when i got it to the dealer I found out the six year warranty is not a suzuki warranty but a 3 year warranty by suzuki and the rest by a company (in my case GE) that knows nothing about boats. And will do every thing to not cover your motor. The motor that i had the dealer didnt fill out the paper work and i didnt get the 6 year warranty. All i could get from suzuki was 0. They said i had no help they didnt care if i sue them or any thing. I even called the vp of the marine divison he never returned my call.

Even if your motor is in the first 3 years and you blow a head gasket they wont cover it. They will tell you that you got bad gas and you will be out of luck. if you search the net you will find that the suzuki has issues with the vapor sepperator and all the dealer has to say is that there is water in it. and they wont help you. the vapor seperator is open to the outside so you will have some condesation in it. Out of luck.

If you searce the internet you wont find as much issues with the E tec ( we may have to wait a few years)

I will nwver buy SUZUKI (Ask Tom Root what he thinks)

[Divecoz]

Sad to say but much is like Rich explains outside of the USA Canada and maybe a very few others. Warranty work on De-Walt tools is ZERO outside then USA. Outboards much the same answer from what I have seen in Mexico. So it may not be Suzuki USA just the International side of almost every company in the world . There is very little consumer protection outside the G8's . In Mexico we have Profepa for what its worth which is very little when going up against a Multi Nation Cooperation.

[Frank C]

I purchased Suzuki's 6-yr warranty with my model 2000 DF-60 - read as, I didn't get it as a free benny - had to spend an extra ~500 bucks. The only problems I've had with this motor were of my own doing ... like letting the fuel line get too old, so that it was sucking in air. The outboard itself has NEVER stalled ... except when I've run a fuel tank empty-dry - hmmm.

Another "operater defect" ... once I almost trailered the boat up-ramp without turning off the key and shutting down the motor. It's so quiet and smooth at idle that it's unnoticeable. The boater just behind me on the ramp saw the water streaming. He flagged me to ask why it was still down & idling ... just as I submerged the trailer.

My DF-60 has never been back to a Suzuki dealer, cause there's been no problem or reason. Maybe I just got lucky, but I think there are literally thousands of Suzuki owners who never go back to see the dealer ... change the oil and keep the gas tank full. (and BTW, I always add an ounce of Stabil before refilling each of my 6-gal plastic fuel tanks.)

WADR, Rich had a problem with Suzuki, along with one or two other forum members.
But it seems folly to say, "I had a problem with Brand X, therefore Brand Z is better."
If one hasn't owned Brand Z .... where's the value in such advice??

[Rich Walton]

The 6 year warr you got frank is a 3 year suzuki and a 3 year extened warr from GE. If you ever have to use it you will need a contract # that you should have got from you dealer. If he didnt give you one than you are in for a world of hurt. (and out some cash) I also have issues with the dealers. Suzuki says contact the dealers on everthing but the dealer will tell you it is not a warranty issue just to get out of fixing the issue. If you ever have any issues eith your motor make sure that you drain your vapor sepprator BEFORE you take it in.

If I were you Frank I would call Suzuki customer service and ask about your warr. in case you ever need it.

The whole suzuki story is so long i cant do the whole write up. PM me and i will call you (or any one else) and give you the whole stoy.


The bottom line is Suzuki has a 3 year warr. the rest is a extended warr through a warranty company. Make sure when you buy the motor that you are clear on the details or you can get screwed.

I now have a 2006 E-Tec 75 and i hope i have better luch on that. I also have the Suzuki in my garage along with the manual and 500 worth of head gasket parts that i am going to try and sell.

[Frank C]

REgarding your main question, the transom, following are quotes from a very old threads on similar topic:

I am sure that my dealer's (inside transom) reinforcement serves me well. It is not a bar or flat, it's an aluminum "C-channel" that is about 1.5" deep and 3" wide, made of 1/4" aluminum. It spans the bulkheads ~4 feet across the interior transom, and it is drilled to pickup the lower engine bolts and the rudder mounting bolts. I believe that it substantially stiffens the transom. My Macgregor, handled with prudent caution, shows no signs of stress from five seasons with an oversized outboard. (YMMV)

Oversized engines and transom reinforcement were discussed many times. It occurs to me that design is only 10% of the transom solution, while implementation is 90% . . . . Following is some of the discussion about the transom and heavier motors.

. . . My 2000-26X with Suzuki DF60 is now in its fifth season. When I asked my Mac dealer to upsize to a (Suzuki) 60 hp, he told me the same thing ... that the transom is amply designed, but that the manufacturer might not warrant it. He discussed it with Roger Macgregor, and they refused to warrant my hull with a 60hp. However, they did express the same opinion, that the transom is not at risk. . . .

My Mac dealer insisted on stabilizing the transom, spanning it inside with a heavy aluminum channel, sized ~like a 2x3 stud. This reinforcing channel carries the lower motor bolts and the rudder mounting bolts. Scattered owners had installed the Suzuki 70 with no reinforcement, before I chose Suzuki's de-tuned DF60 version. Both models weigh 335#. (It seemed to me that Mark's problem on his 115hp was installation-related, not inate to the transom).

MY EXPERIENCE
My motoring performance was 24 mph at 5000 rpms in light ripple when new (GPS). As the boat aged, WOT has dropped to 20 or 21 mph. I could probably add 2 mph by re-pitching, since max rpms should be 5600. However, I rarely run the boat above cruising speed, about 16 mph @ 3,800-4,000, so WOT is not an objective.

My 3 personal best days under sail were close reaching at 8+ mph and kissing 9 mph (7+ knots) in 20 knot winds, by GPS. This required lots of practice and additional trimming and sail controls, but nothing special regarding the motor. The transom exhibits no signs of abnormal stress.

RISKS
. . . ballast tank is seamed to the hull, and the factory expressed the opinion that this "could be" at risk by overpowering. Using a more powerful motor to push the boat through heavy chop could quite obviously stress those seams, especially with ballast full. As described, I rarely run WOT, and scrupulously avoid high speeds in heavy chop . . . besides being uncomfortable, I hate to punish my boat that way. I rarely motor with ballast full, never motor at speed with ballast. Only one time did I have 5 aboard, and rarely have more than 3.

BEYOND
I think Billy chose to go with his Suzuki DF-140 after hearing my experience was so benign. I also referred him to two others with Suzuki 70s. I would not hesitate to follow his and Mark's path with the next larger Suzuki at 400+ pounds. Billy's 140hp is only another 75# more than my 60hp, and I believe the the fuel economy difference is trivial.

[trumpetguy]

i love my suzuki. as far as shoring up the transom...no need. i did have some shims added to kick the lower unit in a bit, which holds the bow level on plane. todd at bwy is a good resource for suzi installs. i did buy the bwy quickconnect system and am glad i did.

prop it with a suzi 3x14x11 and be very happy.

still in the cast from shldr. surgery so typing with weak hand.

[aya16]

although I have a suz. 50 and Im very happy with it. If the choice was between a suz 70 and a etech I would go with the 90 etech, weight wise the etech 90 weighs less than the suz 70. and you get 20 more hp.

but I have no complaints with the suz. Its just that white etech 90 looks
like it was made for the mac....

[beene]

Its just that white etech 90 looks
like it was made for the mac....

I don't know Mike, I think the black and whilte look suits the Mac

...... 4 month countdown.....

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

You used to be able to get the same Suzuki motor from Johnson with a white case that also looks great on a Mac.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

If I was going to the trouble of reinforcing the transom, I would also want at least a 90HP. Do we have anyone on the board yet who has gone from a 4stroke 50/60/70 to a 2 stroke etec or tldi 90?

[Frank C]

When installing the DF70 is any transom reenforcement required or recommended? From what I have read through various postings it seems the M boat will support the DF70 fine without any extra support. I read some postings that recommend a aluminum support, but I have also read where this may also cause problems.

Just captured some archive-pix that were linked to older threads - just to save them for posterity. These pix of the 26X transoms were either from Mark's Suzuki 115 or Billy's DF140. Whether you want or need to reinforce an M's transom for just the Suzi-70 ... your call. As I posted earlier, my DF60 was one of the first oversized motors (bigger than 50).

Mine probably WAS the first oversized installation by a Mac dealer, earlier installs by individual owners. Gene Arena insisted on reinforcing my transom - probably overkill - and he didn't use a little flat AU. As described above, he installed a beefy AU channel - had to drill it to clear the transom drain (I lost those photos in a disk crash). Gene also extended the inner channel another six inches (each side) beyond the inner bulkheads, so it could also mount the bolts for rudder brackets.
On the 26M? ... YMMV.

Inner Transom Bulkhead


Billy's Aluminum Parts Bin


Billy's Transom Shot


Mark's Transom Shot


Mark's Motor Well Plate (Bad point-loading caused cracks)


Revised Motor Well Bar (relieved of point-loads)


Edit: Oops - that HS chem class was in 1964 ... here's the more recent table of elements.
AL =13 and AU =79, which is OBVIOUSLY too heavy for a Mac transom - please alter your mods~!

[Captain Steve]

You used gold in your transom mod??? my periodic chart lists AU as gold!!! That has to be the ultimate Mac bling.

[Bobby T.-26X #4767]

If I was going to the trouble of reinforcing the transom, I would also want at least a 90HP. Do we have anyone on the board yet who has gone from a 4stroke 50/60/70 to a 2 stroke etec or tldi 90?

me...i had an '02 Suzi 50 and upgraded to a 90 tldi.
here's my transom reinforcement, plus (not shown) the bar accessed via the rear berth as seen in photos above.

BTW, for the 90 i was able to use the same thru holes as the 50 so no additional drilling needed.







Bob T.
"DaBob"
'02X w/ '04 90-TLDI (14" x 11 pitch)
Dinghy Motor: '06 2.5-Suzuki