Marine quality components, are they needed?

[Dannie]

I am sure this posting will have lots of different responses but being new to boating and looking at installing 110v outlets for shore power and future generator I am wondering if “Marine quality electronics” are needed.
When looking at shore power and adding some 12V outlets, 110v duplex GFI outlets, 110V distribution panel, stereo, speakers, new galley cabinets with lots of drawers, etc, do you need the expense of all of the marine type components. Without question Marine grade looks like the correct method of wiring everything and I am sure it is better in the long run, but in looking at some of the expenses you would go through to get some outlets and even a AM/FM Stereo, speakers, and mostly the distribution panel, etc it seams like everyone pushes marine quality.
I am sure answers will be different if you sail on salt water or fresh water, I am just trying to justify the additional expense for the marine quality components.

[Bobby T.-26X #4767]

this is a personal preference thing.

Mac X/M stock wiring is lamp cord (go figure). it's probably based on the fact that it's a trailerable boat and is marketed that way.
so I, like other trailer lovers, opt for products that save on the budget but still perform.
that's lightweight (plastic), quality (stranded wire), limited corrosion (plastic & light aluminum/stainless), easy to install & fix products.

on the other hand, many Mac owners choose to park in a wet slip. if that's your decision, i suggest using the expensive, heavy, non-corrosive, marine application products as needed.

Bob T.
"DaBob"
'02X w/ '04 90-TLDI (14" x 11 pitch)
Dinghy Motor: '06 2.5-Suzuki (H20-Pump recalled)

[Paul S]

FWIW, the M wiring (at least our M) IS marine grade tinned wire.

I tend to pick and choose my components based on need. For 12v systems I use marine grade wire and connectors. I installed an inverter. I did cheap out and use a regular modified extention cord and home gfci outlet. Figure if it does fail..I can replace it like 5-10 times for the cost of the marine grade stuff..and it is not a high importance item (the inverter).

I will probably install a marine grade stereo when the time comes; one with a wired controller for the cockpit. I used car stereos in our old bowrider powerboat for years..they tend to last about 5-6 years (by that time I am generally tired of it, and new features are out). I went with marine speakers, probaby will when I do our Mac.

I have bought a few things from Dave's Marine Electronics http://www.davesmarineelectronics.com/index.asp They have great prices, great customer service (the owner answers the phone on the second ring, or replies to emails very quickly).

For wiring products. I get my stuff from bestboatwire http://www.bestboatwire.com/. Awesome price and quality, fast shipping...

Paul

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

I went with a marine grade inlet (just a 15a charger plug) and a marine grade double pole breaker for my 120v installation. All the wiring is simply 14 gauge standard extension cord wire. The outlets are standard household GFCI. The boxes are plastic. (Note: I designed my system to be all 15 amp, if you go higher, you will need bigger gauge wire.)

Some of the components such as my charger wiring are going on 10 years of use as I had it in my prior boat before we bought the X. It shows absolutely no signs of any problems with corrosion. The copper conductors are still bright copper, no green.

Both boats have always lived on their trailer in the back yard covered.

As mentioned above, all the wiring that comes from the factory in a Mac is non-marine grade wiring, it's simple duplex copper lamp cord. This same wiring was in my 1970 V21. Even after 3 and a half decades it has no problems. (My sister bought the boat and it's still in perfect working order.)

Marine grade wiring while certainly better, is not a necessity in these boats. In almost all cases, they are just not subjected to the conditions that require this higher grade of wiring.

The 12v system on a Mac is very simple, there is no reason the 120v system shouldn't be the same.

[Divecoz]

For lights and things I have used # 14 and #12 direct burial Low Voltage Malibu yard light wire. That said, its fine stranded and well sealed by the factory for weather / water and UV resistance.
I in most cases twisted the exposed wires ,tinned them used appropriate Sta-Con connector, filled that connector crimping twice ,with No-Ox and finished with shrink tube.
Looking back, prudent planning would have allowed me to purchase the Proper wire , however tucking that up and out of the way would have raised the bar so to speak. Soooo I purchased 1 - 50 ft. yellow 30 amp commercial grade extension cord. I too, and being in the industry such as I am, choose to use a good quality 20 amp GFCI. I did purchase the proper ingress devise for shore power and a 50 ft twist lock power cord. I cannot emphasize the proper use of No-Ox enough!

[Frank C]

Crediting a suggestion on this Board by one of Heath's members (who posted this hint ... argonaut?), I bought a hundred feet of outdoor, low voltage 14g duplex at HmDepot ... the stuff that powers landscape lighting. It's designed to bury in-ground and it's a lot more flexible than standard wiring ... easier to make twists & turns between the 26X liner and hull. I figure the fact that it's okay underground MUST create some added benefit in the boat, but it's worth the shopping trip just for its flexibility.

It might be wise to use the full monty marine treatment if a Mac is slipped or moored in an area of frequent fog and humidity. In those conditions green corrosion can creep right under the insulation and along the wiring. Otherwise, it's generally the terminals and connections that cause problems, not the wiring.


EtAdd: Oops ... guess I was posting just after Dive's post appeared ... and guess it was Dive who posted that hint, long ago! Thanks!

[Divecoz]

Crediting a suggestion on this Board by one of Heath's members (who posted this hint ... argonaut?), I bought a hundred feet of outdoor, low voltage 14g duplex at HmDepot ... the stuff that powers landscape lighting. It's designed to bury in-ground and it's a lot more flexible than standard wiring ... easier to make twists & turns between the 26X liner and hull. I figure the fact that it's okay underground MUST create some added benefit in the boat, but it's worth the shopping trip just for its flexibility.

It might be wise to use the full monty marine treatment if a Mac is slipped or moored in an area of frequent fog and humidity. In those conditions green corrosion can creep right under the insulation and along the wiring. Otherwise, it's generally the terminals and connections that cause problems, not the wiring.

I agree FrankC. I do suggest using No-Ox inside and out of the connection as well. Then the problem water / corrosion would literally have to go thru the insulation of the wire. Barring a crack or a slice or cut . . I find that hard to conceive of.
BUT ! Time will tell, for me anyways.
Folks do not use single strand wire for electrical on boats for any reason. Much greater care must be used when using solid wire . Lots of other reasons as well , suffice to say its a bad idea.

[Dannie]

What is No-Ox is this a non conductive grease to cover electrical connections?

What are you guys using for a distribution panel? Marine or I was thinking of a simple 4 gang breaker sub panel and using the 30 amp breaker as the inlet then feeding 3 15 amp breaker to my GFI outlets

I will be using a 30 amp shore power cord and a 30 amp thru-hull marine plug on the port side

[Divecoz]

I for one would not suggest using household or even commercial grade electrical equipment on your boat, with very few exceptions, unless its rated weatherproof. I am an Electrician by trade and believe you me, its very tempting at times . Boats are just Too Wet Too Damp too many other concerns to contend with that we need not consider in our "normal "day to day Electrical /Inside installation's. If you were to ask me and I believe most others, where is the worst place to mount your panel box at home for longevity of the breakers ? I at least would tell you,the worst place by far is your basement. I therefore can not in good conscience suggest using Menards H.D. etc as a source for many or most of electrical components for use on your boat.
No-Ox is a non water soluble paste used to reduce / eliminate corrosion. Get some on your hands or cloths and you will see quickly , just how hard it is to "wash off". Well that is unless your sailing in a sea of Go-Jo hand cleaner.on edit :I am referring to not using inside disconnects breakers and breaker boxes. I used 20 amp Industry standard GFCI as they seem to be almost water proof . IMO breakers used for home service suck water like a sponge, and then refuse to trip. You now have a buss bar. Dang I like how FrankC's edit came out a lot better . . .green with a slant . . Sorry guys I am not really yelling

[Chip Hindes]

About a year ago my office mate and fellow Mac owner paid $18 at West Marine for a duplex GFCI outlet, ivory only in a Marinco package.

Turned out the actual GFCI outlet inside the Marinco package was the exact same model number Leviton sold in Home Depot for $8. You could also get the Home Depot version in white which matches the Mac gelcoat color perfectly.

You don't get the marine grade packaging, though.

You can no longer find these in the WM catalog. Maybe they wised up to the absolute ripoff.

[Dannie]

I look at the Marine GFCI outlets and they look just like the ones at Lowe’s, so I agree to use these but if you are not using a "home version load center " then HOW are you controlling the amps going to each of the outlets or are all of them LIVE at the 30 amp shore power connection.
Divecoz, you are using regular GFCI duplex outlets but what are you and the rest of you using for load centers, fuse panels, or are you using anything from the point of Marine hook up of the 30 amp shore power?

I would agree that the wiring is better using marine grade, but in looking at several of the modification searches, I see extensions cords, standard 4x4 metal outlet boxes, etc being used, but I do not see a lot of mods that are using distribution panels like Blue Sea, or others.
Love getting everyone’s ideas, it is helping greatly, really

[Frank C]

Don't have a 120v panel, but bought my extra 12v panel from West Marine.
I suppose that means it's by Blue Sea, or one of their competitors.

[Divecoz]

Bought my additional panel from Boat World on sale . Brought a small load bank to the slip and tested the trip on my shore power supply outlet/breaker . It was fine btw. Biggest problems arise when you get into salt water . . better safe than sorry . I suggest using cast pot metal outdoor boxes and covers . Yes I too have seen a lot of mish mash open metal H.D. type boxes in the mods. Anything is fine till you have a problem I guess.

[Dannie]

Divecoz, Your additional panel, was this 110v or 12v?
I am looking at what people are using for panels for the 110V shorepower lines. Looks like I will need to spend about $200.oo up to get a distribution marine grade panel

[Divecoz]

It is a 12vdc panel.
I am relying on the shorepower breaker and the GFCI for protection.