Mast Rebuild

[Chip Hindes]

Frank, with my factory 150 genny at absolute full hoist, the tack is tight against the drum shackle, and the luff is still not as tight as I'd like it. I couldn't shorten it even an inch.

[Highlander]

Ok Guys

Do some research here I already have there is all kinds off rig set ups that have the mast hounds any where from 6" to 2ft above the spreader attachments you have to do your history research here wither its a fractional rig or mast head rig my set up is a mast head rig with a mast head back stay so you have to consider all these facts . the max I was able to reduce my mast rake was from 4 deg. to 2 deg. . but I also have 4" min. of forestay above the luff tape that I can reduce by shorting the forestays so I most likely could get another 3deg. here by shorting the forestays more . so you have to go with what your comfortable with remember what ever conversions you make your responsible for I spent a considerable amount or time researching my rig mods I suggest you's all do it took me 5 mths of research plus I redesigned my rig 9 times before I was able to say I was satisfied with it & today I could most likely improve on it so there you go nothings perfect.

Did I tell you about diamond rig set up ? I designed & maybe have yet to implement as a back up. I don't think I'll have to but I did cover all my bases. So if I do come across any problems I should have them covered

Dimitri
Go ahead & bend your shrould tang on the vise try to have it match the other side as much as poss. just try to avoid bending it back & forth to much to make it perfect if you get it close enough it will be fine

Hope I have not deterd you to much but if you do it right the first time it feel so much better Eh. Because its just to exspensive to be doing it twice

John

[Highlander]

4" above the luff tape oops I did mean the "foil"

[Frank C]

I meant raising the hound above the uppers. Since the 26X has a backstay, 4 to 8 inches up seems doable, to me ... caveat emptor! I guess it's due to my aftermarket Genny that I could easily reduce length of the forestay. As described above, 4 inches yields exactly 2 degrees.
BTW, my factory jib also fits perfectly on the same forestay & foil! I guess the luff lengths of jib and Genoa are not identical.

Several years after adjusting the rake, I decided recently to insert a quick-release lever, ala Catigale. The particular lever I chose is about 8 inches in height, too much to cut the forestay. I did some rt. triangle calcs and drilled the mast above the uppers ... sorry, can't recall how much. As for the durability of the mast, I think the backstay covers this minor change. Besides that, I imagine that it permits even better control of the forestay with adjustments to backstay tension ... strictly my SWAG.

[delevi]

Dimitri,

Regarding your furler luff question:

I had to replace my forestay and it slid through the furling luff quite easily. I did order direct from Macgregor, so I got the 1/8". Not sure how 3/16 would be but I don't think you'll have a problem. Not sure why you want to go shorter. I just cranked my turnbuckle down as far as it would go and have close to zero rake. Perhaps the X boat comes with a longer forestay. There is one parked near mine and his mast is raked way back. I met the guy, recommending that he reduce rake but he said he never messed with it and has no desire to.

[Moe]

With the forestay turnbuckle fully tight, our backstay was about 1-1/2" -2" too short to reconnect, so we added a 4:1 backstay adjuster. That also put our shroud adjusters near the end of their adjustment, where the difference between one hole to the next was about 80 pounds, IIRC.

What's also important is that we didn't appear to lose much pointing ability, which can be a trade-off for decreasing mast rake. But it did get the weather helm down, maybe a bit too much. Even at 45º heel, it wouldn't round up.

Since the forestay stem is only held by screw heads on fiberglass with no backing plate, I don't think I'd go larger than the 1/8" forestay.

All this being said, I'd bet there's probably some variability in the length of 26X forestays, especially over the years it was produced.
--
Moe

[edit] Changed "5/32" forestay to "1/8"" forestay per Frank's comment below. I'd forgotten it and the backstay were smaller than the shrouds.

[Frank C]

While there's no compelling need to upsize from Roger's 1/8" forestay, my local rigging shop (Svendsen's) suggested that 5/32" is more than ample on these boats - so that's what I ordered - same size wire as the shrouds I'm pretty sure the CDI website shows the max wire that will work with the FF2 foil. The problem would be size of the swaged fitting rather than the wire itself.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

I guess you guys are quickly talking me out of shortening the forestay. As I mentioned, there is nothing wrong with mine, no broken strands, etc. so perhaps raising the hounds is a better idea. I'll do some research here because I do recall these conversations in the past.

Highlander, how much tension do you carry on your rig?

To be clear, I take it that all I would need is one more bolt and one more hole. The shroud attachment would stay at the same place with one bolt. Then another bolt say 4 inches above the shroud bolt would hold the hounds. the hounds would then have the forestay attachment and the jib block, right? I suppose if I had yet another set of hounds, I could add the jib block even higher than the forestay which would make it a bit better for flying a spinnaker. Or maybe just punt the special order stuff and attach the block just with a bolt. I suppose then it might not be good on the wrong tack.

Moe/Delevi, you might be right about different forestay lengths. When I got my boat, the rigging was very loose, and the turnbuckle was set at its longest. I immediately cranked the turnbuckle all the way as short as it would go but I still ended up with a ton of mast rake. I think part of this is because my shroud tension was much higher than the P.O. had it. I don't know how many degrees it is, but it looks like a lot (ie, like 5 degrees or so). I like the idea of a little weather helm...afterall, this is a family boat and I can't always be tending the sheets. But with this much rake, it is clearly too much. In a good blow, I need most of the rudders just to keep it going straight. This slows down the boat quite a bit too. So that is why I would like to at least straighten the mast somewhat, maybe cut the rake in half for example.

[Frank C]

... To be clear, I take it that all I would need is one more bolt and one more hole. ...

Yep, one thru-bolt ... but that actually means TWO holes.

Considering the debate about varying lengths of forestay, cannot be sure what distance you should SWAG, up-mast. Four inches longer in the vertical would require adding, say, 5 inches to the hypotenuse? ... so that means your rake angle will change as if you had shortened the forestay by 5 inches. That seems rational, to me, especially if you're starting from 5 degrees aft. Even at 2 degrees aft-rake, mine has ample wx-helm in brisk winds. And when less than brisk, it's a non-issue.

Note: SWAG lengths based upon my faint recall from HS trig ... 3-4-5 right triangles!

FWIW, after raising the hounds I also had to retune the rig. Since I added the extra-fancy threaded shroud adjusters during same mod, I was easily able to rig the uppers at 350 lbs, and the lowers at 300#.

[Frank C]

Note: SWAG lengths based upon my faint recall from HS trig ... 3-4-5 right triangles!

Incidently ... anyone who was more attentive during the "trig functions" chapter ... feel free to compute the actual rake angle after changing the upright leg of 85-degree triangle from 23' 9" (as measured on my 26X mast, drawing below) to a new hound height of 24' 1" (just 4 inches up-mast) ...



Drawing depicts varying mast heights for clearing overhead bridges, etc.

[delevi]

Ok, is everyone following along here? Frank, I think I started to tune out when you mentioned something about a hypotenuse. Is that some sort of sea animal

[Catigale]

I thought I went through this calc in the Mods when I added my quick release lever (see rigging) and had to raise the hound or shorten the forestay. I chose to raise the hound. (I obviously did the calculation but may not have documented it there.....)

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

Yep, one thru-bolt ... but that actually means TWO holes.

Hey...smarty pants. If you dig a hole in the ground and then fill it back halfway with dirt, how much of the hole do you have left?

Ok, now look through the hole in the mast from one side and how many holes do you see?

Seriously, thanks for the trig lesson, but its all pretty much a SWAG since I never even measured my mast rake....let me go out and take a better look... oh sh*t, momentarily forgot it was broke in half laying on the ground..

My best bet is just asking how much people have raised it. Knowing first hand how flimsey this mast is, I'd get a bit nervous raising it too much. Sure, there is a backstay, but that is not the same as the shrouds. The basic problem is that if there is variability in the length of the forestay between boats, then all bets are off. I think I'm pretty much using my 4 inch swag from data that Frank and others have posted in the past. I may just have to fudge this unless a math samaritan who has done it to their own boat pops out of cyberspace.

[Highlander]

Hows this for a mast rigging mod has anyone seen this boat



The owner of this Mac26 rigged her as a double headed "cutter rig" yawl - chopped 4ft off the main mast and gaff rigged the mainsail as she was a bit over-canvassed for her displacement. they added wheel steering and a tab on the rudder for self steering or can run lines from the tab into the cabin . the owner says she will balance beautifully and with the sail options makes a very weatherly rig for the stormy Lake Superior owner sails single-handed . That's their stormsail you see which is on a beartrap so they can quickly move her aside when not required

owner say's " see what you can do with a Mac !! "

Quite the rig Eh. nice boat would love to see pic's of her sailing found this back in feb/06 took me day's to find it again saved it now

John

[kmclemore]

Cool cutter. The site also has a movie of it in flight.... must be pre-wheel steering mod though.

Click for MOVIE.
(cute quote... "Looks like we're sailing, laddie!")

More photos HERE, including the 4-foot bowsprit.