Mooring for a 26X

[Highlander]

When I raised the boom connecting brkt on the mast of my up three inches so I could sail with my new bimini in the up possition plus I wanted that extra 3" head clearance rather than lower the height of the bimini. I found that the mast had some corrosion on it where the s s brkt was mounted onto the mast with ss rivits, the boat had spent most of its life in salt water. Anyway I put a plastic protective tape on the ss brkt before I rerivited it back on the mast in its new position with ss rivits, this winter I'll be installing these 3" x 5ft swimming noodles five of them inside my mast as floatation the less air space inside the mast the better they have a 3/4 " hole in the center that I'll run my elect. wiring through at the same time I'll have to disasemble the hardware in the mast to install them & I'll inspect all the hardware & put protective tape on any ss fitttings that make contact with the mast . mast head cap with spinnaker crane, 2 mast hounds, 2 sets of spreader brkt's & baby stays I have a cutter rig, this should help slow this natural process as the only contact with the mast will be the hardware & rivits. This inspection should be done in the fall at the very least that way you've got all winter to make any repairs & dont loose any sailing days for us folks up here in the northern area anyway see all the snow were getting this wk-end . I wonder if these masts that are breaking had any corrosion behind the spreader brkt's or mast hounds ? just a thought and where are they breaking

John

[R Rae]

Rich says:
I've sat in my cockpit sipping a sundowner many a night and watched that poor Mac bounce around like a bucking Bull.

On thinking this over , I suspect Rich may be very close to putting a finger on the source of the Mac problem.

Isn't it quite true that the Mac is about the only boat that sits basically on top of the water.......So, where most other boats at anchor have the ability to plow through some of the oncoming wave action and therefore aren't so easily bounced around, the surface riding Macs react to everything that comes their way. The result being more sustained excessive loads whipping the mast and rigging back and forth, and possible failure.
As Frank says: 24/7.

[marsanden]

R ray says :On thinking this over , I suspect Rich may be very close to putting a finger on the source of the Mac problem.

Isn't it quite true that the Mac is about the only boat that sits basically on top of the water.......So, where most other boats at anchor have the ability to plow through some of the oncoming wave action and therefore aren't so easily bounced around, the surface riding Macs react to everything that comes their way. The result being more sustained excessive loads whipping the mast and rigging back and forth, and possible failure.

Cant agree with you.
the mac shape increase the tendency to be bend on a side by wind. this can be dangerous for the anchoring ( too much stress on it) increase the risk of capsize, but is helpfull for the rig ( less surface exposed to wind).

if what Rray says was true, well the mac greg farm must warn all the owners against this kind of risk, cause no other boat can have a perfect mast been broken by wind, when mooring.


Demast has broken 2 masts. ok. in another mail he says he tested a new spinnaker but he wasnt able to drive it. lots of problems with sail and mast.
what halyard did he chioce?
what halyard to rigging and derigging the mast ?
if the boat has the roller furling jib, well its possible no other jib halyard are available......
so its possible he choiced a top halyard........

Luis says : Watching the video holding the Mac X and M on its side with a full ballast is an extreme example of strength in the rigging of the Mac.

in the owner manual , in that chapter, you can read a mac warning :" dont choice the top halyard,to hold the mac on its side, cause you can break the mast".

so it could be the same if u choice a top halyard for rigging and derigging or for sailing a spinnaker.......

Highlander says : When I raised the boom connecting brkt on the mast of my up three inches..........

Any modification can increase the risks of broken masts.

James says:
Inspection is the Key here. Check your rigging and fix if needed.

i think ( and i hope , cause i own a mac, it rests all year long to a dock, close with hundred of other sailing boats ) this is the only true.

[Frank C]

... cause no other boat can have a perfect mast been broken by wind, when mooring.

Demast has broken 2 masts. ok. in another mail he says he tested a new spinnaker but he wasnt able to drive it. lots of problems with sail and mast.

... i think ( and i hope , cause i own a mac, it rests all year long to a dock, close with hundred of other sailing boats ) this is the only true.

Marsanden,
With due respect, I think you're missing the point (perhaps due to language translation). This problem occurs on open moorings, not at a dock. It is not caused by direct wind forces, rather by the reaction of the Mac's hull to constant waves ... snapping the empty rig back and forth.

An open mooring is simply a very heavy anchor in the middle of a bay, unprotected from waves. Your boat has surrounding docks and many other boats helping to reduce wave action ... not true for a mooring.

[Chip Hindes]

I don't accept that a properly tensioned rig will "snap back and forth" under any condition. The additional loads due to sailing at anchor or mooring are relatively small; orders of magnitude less than the loads experienced during sailing.

A loose rig, on the other hand, will experience repeated shock loads and they could be of a magnitude which could lead to rig failure.

[marsanden]

Franck says:
Marsanden,
With due respect, I think you're missing the point (perhaps due to language translation). This problem occurs on open moorings, not at a dock.

I dont.
this problem cant occours anyway. Docks or open mooring is the same for rig.

Chip hindes says:

I don't accept that a properly tensioned rig will "snap back and forth" under any condition. The additional loads due to sailing at anchor or mooring are relatively small; orders of magnitude less than the loads experienced during sailing.

A loose rig, on the other hand, will experience repeated shock loads and they could be of a magnitude which could lead to rig failure.



i agree with you, chip.

[Frank C]

I don't accept that a properly tensioned rig will "snap back and forth" under any condition. ... A loose rig, on the other hand, will experience repeated shock loads and they could be of a magnitude which could lead to rig failure.

I thought that was precisely the point I initially raised to the OP's original question ...
a properly tuned rig is especially important at a mooring. Did I not spell check it ???

Sam,
The standing rig takes some abuse due to the boat hunting back and forth while moored.
Make sure your rigging is well adjusted ...

Repeating the initial precaution (many posts prior) ... the constant motion on a mooring WILL impart potentially destructive motion to an untuned rig and there are a half-dozen anecdotes to support the warning. IIRC, most of those masts simply snapped at the spreaders. I WAG'd the degree of punishment on a mooring at perhaps 4 times worse than for a docked boat, perhaps 20 times worse than when mast up on the trailer. Strictly a wild a$$ guess, but the percentage of Macs kept at a mooring is surely, extremely small ... so a half-dozen events is a notable sample size from within the likely population of "moored Macs."
A properly tuned rig is especially important for a boat that will endure mooring motion 24/365.

Furthermore ... the point loads of a loose rig at a mooring are apparently MUCH MORE DESTRUCTIVE than any sailing loads on that same rig. That's not to say that sailing loads are less, rather that the point loads (predominantly from the aft-swept spreaders) are particularly destructive for a presumably untuned rig. It takes no leap of imagination to guess that many, many Macs are sailing with somewhat untuned rigs, and their rigs are not failing. Yet a half-dozen masts have snapped on moorings??? Dozens of shock loads happen per sailing weekend ... but while moored, day and night, perhaps hundreds of times per week, after week, after week ... thousands per month?
(Rocket science not required ... in fact, engineering not req'd to read the handwriting on this wall!)

[Craig LaForce]

I Agree with Chip and Frank. Pretty obviously rig is not tensioned right.

If the uppers are loose and sloppy, and the lower shrouds tighten first when the boat rocks back and forth, then the unsupported intertial mass of the top section will overstress the mast at the point where the lowers attach.

The fact that this happened to the same person twice would further indicate rig tuning as the culprit, since the same person tuned (or failed to tune) both rigs.

This boat may have an increased risk, not because of the light weight rig, but because there are no turnbuckles to facilitate getting the right tension.

IF you have ever sailed the boat in high winds with the rig even a little loose, and then tighten it up, the difference is dramatic. The loose rig will bang and slam furiously, making you think it is about to fail (because it is), while the tighter rig quietly takes the strain without the slamming and high interial stresses caused by the mast "being brought up short" when it hits the end of its rope like that dog on its leash in the foghorn leghorn cartoons. Thats gotta hurt.

[Highlander]

Any modification done to a mast does not necc. increase the risk of breakage. When I converted my to a cutter rig I consulted various riggers & some one who was also on a Canadian Olimpic sailing crew I did not necc agree with all their opinions but I did heed their advise & learned a whole lot about rigging I designed two rigging options which included adding an extra set of spreaders & another set of shrouds and of course another forestay I also designed a diamond set rig that I can improvise if I find that it might be necc the rig is very strong & I plan on flying three head sails next year I might need some rail meat how ever do I hear any volunteers I know my boom is at least twice as strong as a 26M boom which is quite small cannot remember if the 26X boom is the same size . Anyway their is no reason that one cannot increase the strength of their rig whither it be for blue water sailing or mooring or heavy weather sailing like me its called sea sense. If you think that where you moor might put more stress on your rig than what its designed for why would you not strenghten that rig it does not necc mean its unsafe . Why wait untill you put your car in the ditch in a snow storm to decide Ya I guess I should have bought those snow tires, when you buy a new car it does not come with snow tires " does that make it an unsafe car " no I dont think so & the manufacture is not legally bound to notify you where comon sense starts & ends ?. Maybe if the keel & rudders were left in the down possition & ballast full the boat & rigging would sustain more. I hope I have not offended anyone with my opion that was not my intention I was just offering my 2 cents worth for whats its worth. Because if my mast broke rather than look for some one to blame I'd be looking for the cause. The statistics & facts say you obiviously need to make changes

John

[James V]

Ok, Let's see if I got this right.

Drop the mast and inspect all rigging and connections. Assuming I know what to look for. Replace as needed.

Tune the rig. errr find how to tune the rig first.

Take her sailing and see if the tuneing is right. errr find out how right tuneing should look first.

Make stronger where you can by adding more stays and spreaders. By adding more weight you would then need to make stronger all supports.

Does this work??

Where is MadMike when you need him??

[Highlander]

James

By adding 1 set of speaders & extra shroulds were talking oz. here not pounds & spread over a length of 26ft I may have to add another set of chain plates for the third head sail . Have you ever sailed in the rain your wet sails will be alot heaver . As said earlier the most likely cause is improper rig tuning this is not rocket science it is a fairly easy process & can be learned it does become more complicated when you get into the bigger boats thats when riggers become involved. shurely you dont wait till you car breaks down before you decide it requires maintenance. you own it to yourself & your boat to learn routine maint. MM did make alot of rig & other changes to his boat to make it more blue water friendly including outriggers his boat is far from being stock. That said hows the weather down there guess your still sailing EH snowed here this wk-end

John

[James V]

Highlander
Thanks for the data. I was thinking about adding another stay going back a little further. Although this will have to be removed when you tack. No big deal really. Beefing up the upper points will be looked into.

I think that the mast breaks at that point because of rigging falure first. The bigger boats is because of being reefed for a long time.

I try to avoid sailing in the rain. Here in Florida there is too much lightening when it rains. I get a charge out of sailing but not that way.

I work overseas and have not been back to Florida after my Bimini trip in late May. I will make it back in about 12 days. Temp 43 F low, 80 F high. winds less than 20 mph. Should be nice going to Key Largo for a week and then to Marathon for another week and then a fews days to make the 170 miles back.

New mods are a VHF and dinghy and motor mount on stern. Can hardly wait to get on the water again.

[Catigale]

I doubt the tuning is that important, as long as your rigging isnt too loose (LaTrec)

If even just the uppers and forestay are reasonably tight, then the shock loading will be reduced and you will be fine.

[Highlander]

Hi James

Catigale is most likely right, remember all my rigging improvements were due to me converting from a sloop rig to a cutter rig plus my heavy weather sailing I've had her over to 55 deg. Thought she was going over a couple of times released the sheets she always came back & the rigging really takes alot of stress when you reset the sheets I'm gradualy changing all my rigging due to age original 1993 and everything looks original so I'm not taking any chances I figure its all due . 2 new fore stays . 2 new middle shrouds , still to change upper , lower shrouds, baby stays, back stay will be changed when I'm finnished doing connversion to rear of boat new one will be shorter
hope you get some nice sailing in & enjoy

John

[Catigale]

I've had her over to 55 deg.

Yikes!!