We recently bought a 2002 26 X and plan to kep it on a mooring in the harbor near us at Cape May, New Jersey. Our previous sail boat experience has been with docks in marinas. We are curious to learn about other owner's experiences and tips on using a mooring anchor for a 26 X.
Thank you for your help.
Sam
Mooring for a 26X
Sam,
Here is something I posted earlier in Oct. Hope it helps.
One problem I encountered while mooring on a 600 lb concrete anchor was that 10 ft. of 3/8 chain going to a mooring ball and from that an 8 ft pendant attached to the boat to be insufficient.
This wasn't too bad with a 3 ft low tide, but when wind and waves picked up at a 7 ft high tide all of a sudden my reduced scope became extreme and I almost lost the boat.
In relaying this tale to an old 'tar' he chided me for not having at least 15-20 heavy chain plus a similar length of line....The extra chain sure works like a super shock absorber.
This year I made the necessary alterations with a dramatic improvement in the boats stability, and after mooring there for 3 mths this past summer I do believe I could reduce my 1/2" three strand down to 3/8" with confidence. (I probably won't though !).
I should add that in a previous post of mine titled 'Anchor Angels' I mention discovering that a 25-35 lb weight (old chain, or bench weights) hanging from the bow eye and dragging on the bottom really helped to minimise excessive swinging back and forth, a problem that is quite common for the 26X.
Good Luck
Here is something I posted earlier in Oct. Hope it helps.
One problem I encountered while mooring on a 600 lb concrete anchor was that 10 ft. of 3/8 chain going to a mooring ball and from that an 8 ft pendant attached to the boat to be insufficient.
This wasn't too bad with a 3 ft low tide, but when wind and waves picked up at a 7 ft high tide all of a sudden my reduced scope became extreme and I almost lost the boat.
In relaying this tale to an old 'tar' he chided me for not having at least 15-20 heavy chain plus a similar length of line....The extra chain sure works like a super shock absorber.
This year I made the necessary alterations with a dramatic improvement in the boats stability, and after mooring there for 3 mths this past summer I do believe I could reduce my 1/2" three strand down to 3/8" with confidence. (I probably won't though !).
I should add that in a previous post of mine titled 'Anchor Angels' I mention discovering that a 25-35 lb weight (old chain, or bench weights) hanging from the bow eye and dragging on the bottom really helped to minimise excessive swinging back and forth, a problem that is quite common for the 26X.
Good Luck
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Frank C
Sam,
One of our members uses the name Demaster because he has broken his 26X mast twice. Both times it snapped at the spreaders, both times while the boat was swinging on a mooring at Lake Tahoe. Paul (his real name) also reports that a 26M lost the mast while in the same mooring field. Another member, Morris, lost his 26X mast while moored in the UK.
The standing rig takes some abuse due to the boat hunting back and forth while moored. Make sure your rigging is well adjusted. Search on the word [dismast] and/or the name Demaster to find earlier discussion threads.
One of our members uses the name Demaster because he has broken his 26X mast twice. Both times it snapped at the spreaders, both times while the boat was swinging on a mooring at Lake Tahoe. Paul (his real name) also reports that a 26M lost the mast while in the same mooring field. Another member, Morris, lost his 26X mast while moored in the UK.
The standing rig takes some abuse due to the boat hunting back and forth while moored. Make sure your rigging is well adjusted. Search on the word [dismast] and/or the name Demaster to find earlier discussion threads.
There is simply no reason for a mast to break on any boat at mooring as long as it is rigged correctly and your scope, anchor weight, etc. are appropriate for the size/weight of the boat and conditions of the field.
Personally, I would take a mooring over a slip any day of the week. Generally, they are easier to get in and out of either by sail or power and a lot more peaceful. Only downside is the lack of fresh water and shore power.
I grew up on moored Ventures and MacGregors. The Venture 17 which basically has a toothpick and string rig never wavered. Even in the some of the worst weather you could imagine.
Would really like to hear more about this Tahoe phenomenom. What are the owners attributing it to?
Personally, I would take a mooring over a slip any day of the week. Generally, they are easier to get in and out of either by sail or power and a lot more peaceful. Only downside is the lack of fresh water and shore power.
I grew up on moored Ventures and MacGregors. The Venture 17 which basically has a toothpick and string rig never wavered. Even in the some of the worst weather you could imagine.
Would really like to hear more about this Tahoe phenomenom. What are the owners attributing it to?
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Frank C
AWK ... Most of our Macs face less than a week of rigging stress per year (about 10 hours per week for a sailing season of 16 weeks). By contrast, a moored rig endures shock loading 24/7/365. WADR, it takes no leap of faith to recognize the risk.
It's not just Lake Tahoe, although three masts were broken in one particular Tahoe mooring. It has also happened at least twice on moorings in the Solent, UK. One of the Tahoe owners, DeMaster, has reported his story twice before ... but his attendance here is less than many ... search is your friend.
It's not just Lake Tahoe, although three masts were broken in one particular Tahoe mooring. It has also happened at least twice on moorings in the Solent, UK. One of the Tahoe owners, DeMaster, has reported his story twice before ... but his attendance here is less than many ... search is your friend.
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marsanden
- Engineer
- Posts: 119
- Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 12:37 am
- Location: Southern Italy ...2001 Mac X ,"Diabolo",Merc 60 EFI
Broken a mast at a mooring?
It sounds incredible.
We know, mac is a wery cheap boat, the fiberglass of the hull is absolutely too thin, the stainless steel is not the best ( too much iron inside) ,the cleats are too small for a 26 “.
But , thinkin about a mast been broken by the wind while the boat is at mooring, well , it sounds incredible.
If real, it means this boat is absolutely not safe.
It means the operating manual is not correct.
If a damnage so big can occur when the boat is resting into the water, if a strong wind can be able to broke a mast without sails, well the developers must suggest to remove the mast when not in use.
They must say :” be careful, dont leave the boat into the sea ( slip or mooring it doesnt a matter, the wind is the same, may be the waves can be different) : strong wind can break the mast!!
Listen : we are talkin of wind, strong wind, not hurricane or similar.
So i hope those broken masts are related with a not correct operating on the rigging.
While mounting it or similar.
Otherwise, well, if a strong wind can broke a mast without sails, well i suggest to all of us , mac owners, in case of wind while sailing, to remove the mast quickly.
The same person had broken 2 masts in the same mooring place: well i think this person make some big and dangerous mistake when he mounts the mast.
Otherwise: be carefull and dont sail with a mac gregor.
It sounds incredible.
We know, mac is a wery cheap boat, the fiberglass of the hull is absolutely too thin, the stainless steel is not the best ( too much iron inside) ,the cleats are too small for a 26 “.
But , thinkin about a mast been broken by the wind while the boat is at mooring, well , it sounds incredible.
If real, it means this boat is absolutely not safe.
It means the operating manual is not correct.
If a damnage so big can occur when the boat is resting into the water, if a strong wind can be able to broke a mast without sails, well the developers must suggest to remove the mast when not in use.
They must say :” be careful, dont leave the boat into the sea ( slip or mooring it doesnt a matter, the wind is the same, may be the waves can be different) : strong wind can break the mast!!
Listen : we are talkin of wind, strong wind, not hurricane or similar.
So i hope those broken masts are related with a not correct operating on the rigging.
While mounting it or similar.
Otherwise, well, if a strong wind can broke a mast without sails, well i suggest to all of us , mac owners, in case of wind while sailing, to remove the mast quickly.
The same person had broken 2 masts in the same mooring place: well i think this person make some big and dangerous mistake when he mounts the mast.
Otherwise: be carefull and dont sail with a mac gregor.
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waternwaves
- Admiral
- Posts: 1499
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:18 pm
- Location: X less in North Puget Sound -have to sail other boats for a while
I live in a location that did not have hurricanes, did not have tornadoes, and yet still had winds of excess 100 miles an hour occasionally.
The rigging arrangement for the mac X is no weaker in design than any other sailboat, however it is smaller diameter.
and those steel cables are more than enough to bend that mast when out of alignement, misrigged, or heavily loaded (i.e. Windsotrm) There are several natural frequences for the mast, boom, rigging components, When the wind is at the proper magnitued and direction, this continuous stimulation can load the rigging and the attaching points. The mac rigging is fine for standard sailing load or static at rest conditions., but start snapping the rigging every few seconds with a long duration wind load, rock the boat a little give it a litlle more amplitude, swing the boom a little with a bagged main, and if you dont have your stays properly loaded, then yes indeed you have the opportunity to snap hardware.
The tacoma narrows bridge went down for similar reasons of failing to design for shock or oscillation/harmonic loads.
The rigging arrangement for the mac X is no weaker in design than any other sailboat, however it is smaller diameter.
and those steel cables are more than enough to bend that mast when out of alignement, misrigged, or heavily loaded (i.e. Windsotrm) There are several natural frequences for the mast, boom, rigging components, When the wind is at the proper magnitued and direction, this continuous stimulation can load the rigging and the attaching points. The mac rigging is fine for standard sailing load or static at rest conditions., but start snapping the rigging every few seconds with a long duration wind load, rock the boat a little give it a litlle more amplitude, swing the boom a little with a bagged main, and if you dont have your stays properly loaded, then yes indeed you have the opportunity to snap hardware.
The tacoma narrows bridge went down for similar reasons of failing to design for shock or oscillation/harmonic loads.
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Gerald Gordon
- First Officer
- Posts: 284
- Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:58 pm
- Location: O'ahu, Hawai'i
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richandlori
- Admiral
- Posts: 1695
- Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:08 pm
- Location: Living Aboard in Morro Bay, CA
- Contact:
There is a MacM on a mooring in Port San Luis where I keep THIRD DAY...and the Mac tendancy to sail at anchor continues on the mooring...but as frank said 24/7/365. I have yet to meet the owner to ask him, but I have noticed that one of the spreaders is bent, and it wasn't like that when it first came to the mooring field...so it may have happend bounding around in the swell.
I've sat in my cockpit sipping a sundowner many a night and watched that poor Mac bounce around like a bucking Bull. It is moves around more than any other boat in the mooring field. From what I have seen (my own personal thought...everyone is different..) I wouldn't want my MacM on a mooring...a least not one like Port San Luis, Ca that can get fairly rough.
I've sat in my cockpit sipping a sundowner many a night and watched that poor Mac bounce around like a bucking Bull. It is moves around more than any other boat in the mooring field. From what I have seen (my own personal thought...everyone is different..) I wouldn't want my MacM on a mooring...a least not one like Port San Luis, Ca that can get fairly rough.
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Frank C
Guys, there's no mystery here. The tensions may be greater when the boat is straining under full sail in heavy wind, but that tension is more constant and it's predominantly in a single direction.
While swinging at the mooring, the unloaded rig endures constant shock loads, back and forth. If the rig is not perfectly tuned it will "work" back and forth, enduring stop-shocks with each wave. Incidently, I'd guess the wave action much more punishing than winds, which push from a single direction. Consider how a wire can be very strong in pure tension, but breaks after being "worked" back and forth.
This is not critical of the boat. The Mac rig is ample for it's intended USE. It is during STORAGE, particularly on a mooring, that the rig works so hard, much harder than when sailing. Haven't done any broader research on this, but wouldn't be at all surprised to find that mooring fields are hard on ALL sailboats - the rig must be properly tuned to endure such stresses.
Just a SWAG ... the rigging stresses while slipped are likely only a quarter of those while moored. On a mast-up trailer, betting less than 5 percent of the mooring stresses. Remember ... back 'n forth, back 'n forth, back 'n forth - 24/365.
Anecdotal evidence is like smoke - it indicates fire. This forum has recorded a half dozen reports of masts broken at a mooring (search button is a friend). How many masts have ever been reported to snap while sailing? And too, remember that the wind-filled mainsail both stabilizes, and shock-protects, the mast and rigging. Fact is, the mainsail's constant pull on the mast, in a single direction, is a reinforcement ... remember, the mainsail's forces are countering the forward push (point-loads) of the spreaders at mid-mast. There's no great mystery here.
While swinging at the mooring, the unloaded rig endures constant shock loads, back and forth. If the rig is not perfectly tuned it will "work" back and forth, enduring stop-shocks with each wave. Incidently, I'd guess the wave action much more punishing than winds, which push from a single direction. Consider how a wire can be very strong in pure tension, but breaks after being "worked" back and forth.
This is not critical of the boat. The Mac rig is ample for it's intended USE. It is during STORAGE, particularly on a mooring, that the rig works so hard, much harder than when sailing. Haven't done any broader research on this, but wouldn't be at all surprised to find that mooring fields are hard on ALL sailboats - the rig must be properly tuned to endure such stresses.
Just a SWAG ... the rigging stresses while slipped are likely only a quarter of those while moored. On a mast-up trailer, betting less than 5 percent of the mooring stresses. Remember ... back 'n forth, back 'n forth, back 'n forth - 24/365.
Anecdotal evidence is like smoke - it indicates fire. This forum has recorded a half dozen reports of masts broken at a mooring (search button is a friend). How many masts have ever been reported to snap while sailing? And too, remember that the wind-filled mainsail both stabilizes, and shock-protects, the mast and rigging. Fact is, the mainsail's constant pull on the mast, in a single direction, is a reinforcement ... remember, the mainsail's forces are countering the forward push (point-loads) of the spreaders at mid-mast. There's no great mystery here.
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marsanden
- Engineer
- Posts: 119
- Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 12:37 am
- Location: Southern Italy ...2001 Mac X ,"Diabolo",Merc 60 EFI
in italy , the strongest wind is the Bora, a NE that can blow until 130 KM\h.
NO sailing boat without their mast up , mooring or sliping is the same.
It can happen that some boat can capsize when at mooring cause the strong wind on its side, not, never, a broken mast.
it can happen some boats could fall by their craddle.
Then, as i said before, the broken mast depends on the state of the mast before, depends on the rigging and same mistake thier owner done.
So, again, if your experience on macgregor is that its possible broken a new mast cause the wind, well it means this boat is unsafe.
NO sailing boat without their mast up , mooring or sliping is the same.
It can happen that some boat can capsize when at mooring cause the strong wind on its side, not, never, a broken mast.
it can happen some boats could fall by their craddle.
Then, as i said before, the broken mast depends on the state of the mast before, depends on the rigging and same mistake thier owner done.
So, again, if your experience on macgregor is that its possible broken a new mast cause the wind, well it means this boat is unsafe.
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James V
- Admiral
- Posts: 1705
- Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:33 am
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
- Location: Key West, Fl USA, 26M 06, Merc 50hp BF "LYNX"
OK, lets crunch the numbers 35,000 boats. A few broken mast. If you read some of the threads you will find that other boats broke their mast too and they ware NOT MacGregors.
Does that make a Mac more unsafe than other boats. No.
Inspection is the Key here. Check your rigging and fix if needed.
For those of you who keep their boat in the water or mast up, How often do you check the rigging on the top of the mast?
Anybody needed a repair?
Does that make a Mac more unsafe than other boats. No.
Inspection is the Key here. Check your rigging and fix if needed.
For those of you who keep their boat in the water or mast up, How often do you check the rigging on the top of the mast?
Anybody needed a repair?
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LOUIS B HOLUB
- Admiral
- Posts: 1315
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:40 am
- Location: 1999 Mac-X, Nissan 50 HP, Kemah, TX, "Holub Boat"
Watching the video holding the Mac X and M on its side with a full ballast is an extreme example of strength in the rigging of the Mac. Only times Ive seen snapped masts were when the sailor didnt guess-ti-mate shore line trees, low bridges, or other obstructions.
Lesson I've learned in this thread, rig tuning is important.
Lesson I've learned in this thread, rig tuning is important.
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waternwaves
- Admiral
- Posts: 1499
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:18 pm
- Location: X less in North Puget Sound -have to sail other boats for a while
James,
in 6 years of watching mine,
1 upper stay starboard side frayed at fitting............replaced stay
1 adjustment plate port stay, side bent and replaced. Obviously that had to occur when trailering, but I never found what caused it. Could have been some vandal just bending it, but I never knew.
1 baby stay snapped at 90 deg plate clip during mast raising, mast pulled to one side and came crashing down, I caught it, but it was not pretty., 1 spreader replaced. mast gently restraighted with my custom 3 roller tool.
1 caught wave with mast, broke (popped half the wires) forestay,
+
our 40 -50 kt winds are back........
anyone want to go sailing??
in 6 years of watching mine,
1 upper stay starboard side frayed at fitting............replaced stay
1 adjustment plate port stay, side bent and replaced. Obviously that had to occur when trailering, but I never found what caused it. Could have been some vandal just bending it, but I never knew.
1 baby stay snapped at 90 deg plate clip during mast raising, mast pulled to one side and came crashing down, I caught it, but it was not pretty., 1 spreader replaced. mast gently restraighted with my custom 3 roller tool.
1 caught wave with mast, broke (popped half the wires) forestay,
+
our 40 -50 kt winds are back........
anyone want to go sailing??