Thought I'd start this post even though Catigale has one on going, mainly because I want to keep this leak thing prominent. take a look at my reply to Catigale's problem.
My boat on a swinging mooring which bottoms twice a day onto soft mud in one area or sand/tiny shells in the other.
In my 1996 26X I have shifted half a gallon on every tide out of the bilge area under the ice chest, where I keep the two batteries. So far 2.5 gallons.
No reduction in water level in ballast tank. Boat now on trailer awaiting investigation by boatyard and insurers.
With Fran reporting his disastrous knockdown and water ingress, Catigale's heavy leak and now mine - is something happening here with older 26X's?
Further Hull / Ballast Leak
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Max
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Noticed on the 'Engines' thread that Dimitri says that the 'M' has alot more fibre glass where the dagger board casing meets the hull. Interesting....Just spoken to MacGregor here in the UK and they said that heavy lateral movement of the keel can cause fractures where the case meets the hull.
Is this why the M is thicker here??
Is this why the M is thicker here??
Re: Further Hull / Ballast Leak
I think your jumping the gun. We don't know the cause of any of these situations yet.Max wrote: With Fran reporting his disastrous knockdown and water ingress, Catigale's heavy leak and now mine - is something happening here with older 26X's?
Also... some perspective is in order. There are thousands of these boats out there. The fact that there are accidents is just part of life. The fact that there might be some combination of mechanical failure, along with human error, is very likely in a cross-section of thousands of boats. It doesn't necessarily mean there is either a design or production problem with the boat. It means that people are using them and a certain percentage are going to end up in accidents/leaks. That is the case with every boat ever made.
You would have to perform a statistical study to see how safe the craft is in comparison with others. Even that wouldn't necessarily tell you that the craft is less safe. It would more likely tell you about the average owners abilities since about 70% of boating accidents are human error related.
The leaks? I bet they are found to be places other than the hull or water ballast. How many examples do we have of water balast failure? None that I'm aware of and there are a lot of MacGregors out there. That kind of record is hard to believe considering the number of Macs out on the water. Some with 115HP engines and being used outside of their design parameters and I'm sure many more being grounded, pounded and abused during trailering and use.
Last edited by kevperro on Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
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LOUIS B HOLUB
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Im beginning to wonder if leakage could be simply through:
1. A defective steering linkage rubber boot on the transom, and/or,
2. thru-hull drains (which are water line level), and/or,
3. rain-in through the closed hatch door which has a large crack opening at the top area (if not protected by cloth, foam strip, etc).
Can one imagine the hull stress with a "full water ballast" (1150 lbs) and then add crew weight and all that Horsepower folks hang on the transom. My opinion if ballast tank leakage exists in Mac Boats...I betcha the connection is with big engines, hull stress, all that ballast weight, and engines running at WOT.
1. A defective steering linkage rubber boot on the transom, and/or,
2. thru-hull drains (which are water line level), and/or,
3. rain-in through the closed hatch door which has a large crack opening at the top area (if not protected by cloth, foam strip, etc).
Can one imagine the hull stress with a "full water ballast" (1150 lbs) and then add crew weight and all that Horsepower folks hang on the transom. My opinion if ballast tank leakage exists in Mac Boats...I betcha the connection is with big engines, hull stress, all that ballast weight, and engines running at WOT.
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Max
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Kev,
fair comments. I agree with you - but there is still a nagging doubt, particularly as the 'M' is thicker there as I stated.
Louis,
Checked all of those. But the previous owner had glassed in some wood to hold the batteries. I know he lost the keel - maybe it caused some damage as it hit a bank and the lateral movement caused a hair line crack on the keel casing? The glassing was then done to repair the damage and site the batteries at the same time?
But, surely you can't lose the keel altogether as it is either gonna be held on by the bracket or the rope.
catigale's leak is interesting as he thinks it might be an overflowing ballast tank at the rubber bung hole and over the 'dam' - tho I don't know what the dam is.
fair comments. I agree with you - but there is still a nagging doubt, particularly as the 'M' is thicker there as I stated.
Louis,
Checked all of those. But the previous owner had glassed in some wood to hold the batteries. I know he lost the keel - maybe it caused some damage as it hit a bank and the lateral movement caused a hair line crack on the keel casing? The glassing was then done to repair the damage and site the batteries at the same time?
But, surely you can't lose the keel altogether as it is either gonna be held on by the bracket or the rope.
catigale's leak is interesting as he thinks it might be an overflowing ballast tank at the rubber bung hole and over the 'dam' - tho I don't know what the dam is.
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Catigale
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In short my plug was loose, and after a day of sailing I was finding 5-10 gallons of water in the bilge.
If you leave the plug out while sailing, you will find a large amount of water in your bilge unless it is dead calm
I have convinced myself my ballast tank has integrity, unless i have a subtle hull breach somewhere I am 99% certain my bilge water was simple spillage from the front valve/loose plug.
Doh!
If you leave the plug out while sailing, you will find a large amount of water in your bilge unless it is dead calm
I have convinced myself my ballast tank has integrity, unless i have a subtle hull breach somewhere I am 99% certain my bilge water was simple spillage from the front valve/loose plug.
Doh!
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Divecoz
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Max wrote: 'M' is thicker there as I stated.
But our M's are different animals, I think that our boards can bang around in and under conditions that would have little effect on your swing keel, that is just one of many differences between the X and M. IMHO and it’s only that HO. If there is ever an inherent problem with any of these boats we will hear the call, loud and clear.
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LOUIS B HOLUB
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Great news Catigale.
I'd just echo Divecoz.... the M is a different hull and it may be thicker in areas for any number of reasons. Different designs have different requirements and making an engineering change can be due to a number of factors, not because there was some kind of deficiency.
I’ll not argue what thickness is required where simply because I don’t know enough about the hull design to make an intelligent guess. I’ll just say look at the statistical evidence. Roger builds more boats every year in the trailer sailor category than all other builders combined. If there where an engineering problem with the hull or water ballast system in the X we would have far more evidence of it.
I'd just echo Divecoz.... the M is a different hull and it may be thicker in areas for any number of reasons. Different designs have different requirements and making an engineering change can be due to a number of factors, not because there was some kind of deficiency.
I’ll not argue what thickness is required where simply because I don’t know enough about the hull design to make an intelligent guess. I’ll just say look at the statistical evidence. Roger builds more boats every year in the trailer sailor category than all other builders combined. If there where an engineering problem with the hull or water ballast system in the X we would have far more evidence of it.
Yet another leak story/question
Some very interesting threads about leaks. Sorry about your misadventure Fran.
My leak story:
1996 Mac26X, this last weekend spent three days and two nights on the water, mostly at anchor in a nice romantic cove with my wife; very little sailing, mostly motoring due to poor winds. Returned to ramp motoring slowly with ballast gate open to drain tanks. Port rudder down, centerboard down 25% while motoring in the launch area (very tight). Powered onto the trailer but placement wasn't optimal, so I put the 50 hp Johnson in reverse to "idle" back off the trailer to try another approach. The boat wouldn't back away at idle, I threw some more throttle in reverse and the boat still wouldn't back off. THEN I remembered I had the centerboard part way down but couldn't retract it. Had the wife back the trailer up for more depth and I was then able to retract the board and back off. Finally got the boat out and to quote my wife, "I've never noticed water draining from the boat like that." To my dismay, water was flooding out around the centerboard area and onto the ground. I mean flooding; not a trickle or drip. Water was NOT draining out the ballast gate. This was on flat ground.
Got the boat back to the storage yard and briefly inspected the hull but a heavy storm was approaching and the inspection was brief at best. I tried releasing the centerboard while on the trailer but it would NOT drop at all. Starboard bilge was dry but due to increasing lightning we ran off before inspecting the port bilge.
By the way, the bilge pump did not run during our anchorage and the boat
behaved well while motoring back to the ramp.
This don't sound good!
I would appreceate your thoughts and comments; I plan to drop the centerboard next week and give the hull the once over. I think I cracked the centerboard locker while attempting to back off the trailer.
My leak story:
1996 Mac26X, this last weekend spent three days and two nights on the water, mostly at anchor in a nice romantic cove with my wife; very little sailing, mostly motoring due to poor winds. Returned to ramp motoring slowly with ballast gate open to drain tanks. Port rudder down, centerboard down 25% while motoring in the launch area (very tight). Powered onto the trailer but placement wasn't optimal, so I put the 50 hp Johnson in reverse to "idle" back off the trailer to try another approach. The boat wouldn't back away at idle, I threw some more throttle in reverse and the boat still wouldn't back off. THEN I remembered I had the centerboard part way down but couldn't retract it. Had the wife back the trailer up for more depth and I was then able to retract the board and back off. Finally got the boat out and to quote my wife, "I've never noticed water draining from the boat like that." To my dismay, water was flooding out around the centerboard area and onto the ground. I mean flooding; not a trickle or drip. Water was NOT draining out the ballast gate. This was on flat ground.
Got the boat back to the storage yard and briefly inspected the hull but a heavy storm was approaching and the inspection was brief at best. I tried releasing the centerboard while on the trailer but it would NOT drop at all. Starboard bilge was dry but due to increasing lightning we ran off before inspecting the port bilge.
By the way, the bilge pump did not run during our anchorage and the boat
behaved well while motoring back to the ramp.
This don't sound good!
I would appreceate your thoughts and comments; I plan to drop the centerboard next week and give the hull the once over. I think I cracked the centerboard locker while attempting to back off the trailer.
Max,
Your problem does indeed sound very similar to mine. Gives ya' a sick feeling in the ole' gut, doesn't it? I'll try to get to the source of the problem as soon as I can get back up to the lake. I'll try to document what I find photographically to share with you folks. My guess is, I cracked the hull where the pivot pin of the centerboard is seated into the hull or cracked the hull where the centerboard (locker?) meets the hull. I would think both areas would be difficult if not impossible to repair. I can't remember if I mentioned the fact that a very brief glance under the hull revealed no obvious defects and the centerboard appeared to be aligned appropriately in its slot.
Any info/comments on the feasability of repairing the hull would be welcomed.
Good luck Max
Paul
Your problem does indeed sound very similar to mine. Gives ya' a sick feeling in the ole' gut, doesn't it? I'll try to get to the source of the problem as soon as I can get back up to the lake. I'll try to document what I find photographically to share with you folks. My guess is, I cracked the hull where the pivot pin of the centerboard is seated into the hull or cracked the hull where the centerboard (locker?) meets the hull. I would think both areas would be difficult if not impossible to repair. I can't remember if I mentioned the fact that a very brief glance under the hull revealed no obvious defects and the centerboard appeared to be aligned appropriately in its slot.
Any info/comments on the feasability of repairing the hull would be welcomed.
Good luck Max
Paul