When do you use the water ballast?

mtc · Post by **mtc** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:36 am

A firm believer in what works as proven by trending of actuals - looking for some numbers from the crew:

When do you use ballast? Many responses indicate that no ballast is preferred when motoring, with some skippers actually sailing without it.

I'd rather learn from other's experiences.

Thanks for your replies.

Michael

Frank C · Post by **Frank C** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:12 am

I empty the ballast tank for motoring. Agreeing with comments in similar thread, I find the boat is plenty stable without ballast, and it is quicker reacting and more maneuverable for handling heavier seas.

The rare exception is when I have more than four persons aboard. I've found that most passengers, especially newbies, become queezy when below decks, so I just keep everyone seated in the cockpit.

Chinook · Post by **Chinook** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:58 am

I started out like Frank, however have more recently tended to cruise with ballast in most of the time. When on extended cruises we maintain motoring speeds of 5 to 6 knots, and I don't think the ballast weight imposes too great an efficiency loss when acting like a displacement hull at those speeds. Whenever winds permit along the way, I'll motor sail or sail. Since I might switch back and forth with sails and motor several times in a given passage, it's handier to not have to take on or drain ballast with each change. With the ballast in, I'm more prone to open the jib and raise the main when a decent breeze develops.

If I feel I can afford the gas consumption and want to make time or just have fun by running full throttle, I will empty the ballast.

Bill Warnock · Post by **Bill Warnock** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:04 pm

Chinook's post expresses my sentiments entirely concerning this subject..!

Like today... I was out in the Channel Islands area (off the coast of Oxnard,
California) bouncing around at about 4.5 to 5.5 kts. with just the genoa up...
subject to winds of 10 to 15 kts... and heeling to 30 degrees... until I would
do an "adjust".

Beside the permanent ballast at around 300 lbs... the additional water ballast
(1150 lbs)... gave me some peace of mind... in exploiting these kind of con-
ditions in a coastal/blue water environment.

For this particular newbie... and in summation... I consider having water
ballast.. simular to that AMEX add... "don't leave home without it." (smile)
.
Bill

Sailfish · Post by **Sailfish** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:13 pm

For now I always have full ballast. I sail in costal waters (Santa Monica Bay) just off Marina Del Rey CA. I will admit that maybe with more experience , and good conditions I may power empty to save fuel, but for now I'm more comfortable full. Good sailing Phil

nemo · Post by **nemo** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:14 pm

I also started out motoring without ballast, but now always put the ballast in, for 2 reasons, both stability related:

1) Avoid excessive heel when turning sharply while motoring fast (I have an inclinometor and have rung the bell at 45 degrees several times). Does not make the admiral/kids happy.

2) Keeps the boat from getting pulled around from side to side when I'm towing the kids on knee board or wake boarding.

If I don't have a huge load and and just traveling straight from point A to B, then I dump ballast for a little better speed and mileage. I'd say it helps speed by 5-10% tops, in my experience (with 70HP Suzuki). I just rather have the stability instead of the extra 1-2 mph.

Night Sailor · Post by **Night Sailor** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:30 pm

while my boat is in the water at my slip, ballast is in, because it rocks less violently when other boats go by.
If my cruise plan contains motoring most of the distance at hull speed or less, I leave ballast in.
If I plan on sailing soon, ballast left in. If motoring at high speed to reach a distant sailing destination, ballast out until I get there, then ballast in before sailing.
IF the weather is very windy or the waves are choppy at 2ft. or more, ballast in.
With more than four people on board for motor or sail, full ballast.
Full or empty ballast, I always slow down for turns since there is nothing to be gained by high speed turns. Slower tighter turns will beat out highspeed wide turns every time.
For long distance cruising with maximum economy with my heavy cruising setup, I empty ballast and run at just below theoretical hull speed if the water and weather are good..

mtc · Post by **mtc** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:05 am

Seems like most of us motor with ballast. Bellaroo is much more placid with the additional weight. I would really like to go out there and push her to the edge of the envelope to ascertain when she'll flip - just so I know.

When training for high altitude, we had to remove our masks to purposely deprive ourselves of O2 and loose consciousness. The point was to know what our body will do right before it happened. I clearly recall my finger tips 'needling.'

So, now I know that when I'm heeling her way over with her rails in the water, when my finger tips get tingly - I'm gonna black out!

Has anyone made a mod to control the gate valve from the helm, rather than flipping the seat, bending waaaayyyy down, and trying to pull it up? Closing it is easier as you just have to tap it down with your foot.

I'll do a search; recall someone rigging a belcrank on the transom.

Only one skipper sails without ballast?

Michael

David Mellon · Post by **David Mellon** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:09 am

I just use a boathook to open and close the transom valve. I need a boathook at hand anyway for docking, clearing lines while raising the mast, beating off the wimmins, etc. I will motor without ballast in very calm seas and a light crew, but the moment I feel The Yam getting squirrely I fill the tank. I never sail without the ballest.

mtc · Post by **mtc** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:50 am

Good idea on using the boat hook... why didn't I think of that? duh.

Michael

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:16 am

You didnt post the option of "Empty motoring full sailing except light winds then empty"

That would be our usual M.O.

RandyMoon · Post by **RandyMoon** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:24 am

Here is an electric ballast valve mod

http://www.macgregorsailors.com/cgi-bin ... record=457

Plus lots of other good ideas if you search on 'ballast' in the Mac Mods section.

Jim Cate · Post by **Jim Cate** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 3:08 pm

[quote="RandyMoon"]Here is an electric ballast valve mod

What about the vent valve in the bow? Do most of you leave it open when you fill the ballast on the water, or do you always go forward to close it after filling the ballast tank?

Also, I seem to remember seeing an electronic "ballast-tank-full" indicator system that would provide an indication of some kind (red or green light?) when the ballast was full. - Has anyone had any experience with this, or have suggestions for verifying the ballast level without going forward, as in rough seas?

Jim

Chinook · Post by **Chinook** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:42 pm

Strongly advise inserting the plug once full. Otherwise, you run the risk of sloshing water into the bilge on bouncy water.

Lease · Post by **Lease** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:50 pm

You didnt post the option of "Empty motoring full sailing except light winds then empty"

Ditto for me. It's all about what you feel comfortable with. Kids on board, or just cruising; ballast is in. Racing in light winds, every little bit helps. It's a bit like performing a lee-bow move; if you know your boat well, it's a great way to get an advantage over an opponent. If you don't know your boat well, it's a great way to test your insurance policy.

On the motoring front, I'm undecided. The boat certainly tracks OK and goes quicker without ballast, but the need to be smooth with steering inputs to avoid outward roll puts a question mark in regard to emergency maneuvers. Mind you, I have zip experience with motoring at higher speeds, in fact I can't believe that (at least here) you can get a licence with just a written examination and no practical test.

MacGregorSailors.com

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