Suzuki 50 Problems

[Tom Root]

OK, have a chuckle on me!

Now I know what a throttle body is....duh!

I have 7 motors right now, and only one with EFI.

My two EFI cars never gave me any grief, so now my ignorance is revealed and cured....ahem!

Anyway, I am out to look into the problem some more, so on the Suzuki, they have a lever that used to be the choke lever, (Here I am stuck on the choke thing...choke, choke, maybe I need the Heimlich maneuver? )
and it also causes the throttle body to close too! When I advanced it before the problem I could high idle the engine, now it shuts down. I will go through several things in my manual, and report back.

Hopefully I will limp my way though this in my Half-vassed knowledge and get lucky?

[Tom Root]

That's a good description, Theo, but I don't think the DF50 has a mass airflow sensor, IIRC. Our BigFoot doesn't, and neither do the EFI Harleys I've seen. They use only the Throttle Position Sensor and Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor when warmed up. During warm-up they also use a Manifold Air Temperature Sensor, Cylinder Head Temperature Sensor, or Water Temperature Sensor to determine when the injectors need to squirt more gas. During the start sequence, they take a reading between the time the key is turned to the On position and then to the Start position.

One thing that's important to do with these systems is to let them go through their boot-up sequence after you turn the key on, but before you turn it to start. It's sure tempting to bypass that noisey buzzer by going directly from Off to Start, but you need to hold off on starting until it goes off.

--
Moe

Moe, I didn't realize that at all, and I am sure I started this thing many times before that screaming start alarm stopped, as a force of habit!

I do in fact hate that alarm with a passion, as I have have awoken many a voyager in the morning when I started up to pull anchor in a remote serene spot, or half the nieghborhood in San Diego Bay, or Mission Bay!

You may have a point, and was told that I can disable it at the throttle, but I will tackle that after this thing is hummin' again! I intend to put a momentary switch on it to disable it, as I know it does have a distinct purpose. Having it as a separate switch will allow it to work when I really want it to....or not!

It's the whole reason I get limited time to work on the motor right now, because I do not care to disturb my neighbors with that dang thing!!!

BTW, the manual has a note not to disasemble any of the throttle body components ever, as they are factory set. I will just spray Carb cleaner in there and hopefully it won't screw it up?

Thanks for the education guys!

One additional point, if I didn't make it clear enough. Again, the engine will not start whatsoever if the throttle valve ( That's what the manual calls, the butterfly valve, what I called the choke!) is fully closed, and is in the detent. I have to manually open it for the motor to start at all! I cannot determine from reading the manual if this is normal or not?

[Tom Root]

Ric K.~ just to let you know, I just got off the phone with Eric, of PMS, and he is scratching his head, (or wallet )and he said I'd need to run that computer test again, yep $92 bucks (again) for him to tell better, what is wrong. Not that I want free advice from him, as he can't/won't stay in buisness long if he does that, but I got what I felt was absolutely nothing for my nearly 100 dollars, the first time!

I have an appointment for the 25th, but my goal is to have this thing chirpin' correctly before that. I can just see a grand or more being deposited in the account of mechanic, not that sometimes they don't deserve it, it's just that I honestly cannot afford to waste nary a penny at this point. The boat bucks are sewed up for awile!

[Moe]

Tom, I hate to give advice on the Suzuki when I can't look at the service manual, but as Theo said, the throttle body shouldn't have to be open to start an EFI motor. The Idle Air Controller should give it enough air to start and idle. I don't think you need to spray carb cleaner in the throttle body. And even though the IAC may be sticking, it's not because of gasoline gumming it up because all it passes is air.

With the throttle/shift lever in neutral, the throttle body should be closed or nearly so. There's a "fast idle" lever you can lift only while in neutral but you shouldn't normally have to use it. It should slightly open the throttle body butterflies and you can use it to increase the alternator output at idle, for example. If you lift that lever too far, the motor should speed up to about 3,000 rpm, then start surging as the rev-limiter kicks in and out. With the throttle/shift lever full forward, the throttle body butterflies should be wide open. There is probably a stop to keep them from going past parallel with the air flow. If they snap closed at wide-open throttle in forward gear, something is wrong with the linkage.

There is usually something like a carburetor bowl called a vapor separator tank that sits between the low-pressure fuel pump and the high-pressure pump. The high-pressure pump may sit in the bottom of it. The tank controls fuel coming from the low pressure pump with a float and needle, just like in a carb. The high-pressure pump draws fuel out of here to supply fuel to the injectors, but the regulator on the high-pressure side also bleeds some fuel back into this tank.

Make sure you're not sucking air in the fuel hose between the tank and the outboard, especially at the connections, which are a common problem. Make sure you're giving the low-pressure pump time to fill this vapor separator (if the DF50 has one and I'd suspect it does) before turning the key to start.

Just some thoughts...

--
Moe

[Theo]

Tom,

What Moe said! Try this. Disassemble your engine (yay) until you expose the throttle opening again. This time try and start the engine with the "fast idle lever" open at various postions. If it starts go ahead and see if it runs well at various fast idles. Make sure it is getting plenty of water. If it runs well with the fast idle lever open then it is most likely your Idle Controller. You're gonna make me get on my boat and haul out the manual are'nt ya.

Theo

[Frank C]

Tom,
... You're gonna make me get on my boat and haul out the manual are'nt ya. Theo

( What an amazing forum this is! )

[Ric K]

Tom:

I think i'ts great that YOU got your engine to run!
There is no doubt in my mind that with the quality help you are getting from this forum, you will be running smoothly in no time.
I have the same engine you do, and I'm reading these posts with great interest, my engine has the same hrs yours does, and I could be facing the same problems you are!

Buena suerte!

Ric

[Catigale]

Tom - there is a separate product called 'throttle body cleaner' that has more chlorinated alkanes in it than 'carb cleaner' which is usually xylene, toluene, and other aromatic hydrocarbons...the throttle body cleaner is more friendly to plastics that are abundant in an EFI throttle body than a carb...
I once got out of $1000 bill from volvo for sticking throttle body by spraying it, so Im a believer!!

Now, to figure out how to retrofit a Seagull into the Volvo....

[Hamin' X]

I agree with Catigale, on the cleaners. Also, some brands of regular carb cleaner will kill your oxygen sensor. Be sure to use one that is "computer friendly".

Rich

[bachmann]

I too have a suzuki 50 2001- less than 100 hours, well maintained. The problem materilized as a rough running engine and thought it was bad fuel. Examined the engine and determined that lowest spark plug looked wet. Started the engine in a test tank and water sperted from the lowest spark plug hole engine ran but rough. Decided to examine the dip stick and milky white - knew this was not good. The only thing in Florida thats harder to make than a doctors appointment is an appontment at the boat yard. The test ($85.00) results were not conclusive except to say compresion on all 3 cylinders was equal at 115 lbs. Best indication was a cracked block. Two differant shops same conclusion. Another mechanic heard of problems with the 90 suzuki with water in the lower piston but only when used on sailboats or on some 4 strokes when pulling them out on a trailer. Consider this the motor is tilted and there is a following sea, or as in on the trailer in the water. A wave breaks over the back, there is a time when the exhust valve is open on the lower piston when the engine is stoped. This week I entend to dismantle the engine and see whats up . i contacted the insurance company to consider if there was coverage as this happened after Hurricane Wilma. The insurance company was responsive and wanted to do a supervised teardown, if the damage was storm related there was coverage if not it would be $1100.00 approx for the service. Notice I didn't say anything about repairing the engine. Neither shop was intrested in or advised a repair ($4000.00) (short block) but suggested a replacement engine for $5k to 6K. Warranty issues on the repair - and I agree. Thanks for listening.

[Theo]

bachman,

Do a search on this forum for all the threads related to Suzuki DF-50s. There are a surprising number of them. My engine also has less then 100 hours on it. You will find my post on numerous threads relating to the Suzy and my problem is as yet not resolved!

Good Luck

Theo

[James and Edeltraud Dunkl]

I can only say that I have a 2002 Suzuki 50HP and I am very happy with it. Back a few years ago I cut my fuel line with the prop (bone head Award awarded by the crew). The motor ran for several minutes before I realized what happened. The entire fuel system was flooded with salt water. I got it completely flushed. No problems afterwards. Then Last year days before I deployed to Iraq I used the boat, No time to winterize the motor. When I returned I spent about 700 dollars getting it ready + new steering cable (another story for another time) installed. No Problems. A long post to say I love my suzuki.

[They Theirs]

Our DF50 has performed without a problem, very smooth, quick starts, amazing fuel economy, a very reliable performer. We are convinced Suzuki has it right.