MAC High Speeds!!!

[delevi]

The only way to sail wing on wing is to use a whisker pole for the headsail. Even though it is not blocked by the main, being on the other side, the shape of the sail is such that it needs a slight angle. Keeping the headsail full ddw is extremely difficult and nearly impossible to do consistently. The whisker pole makes this simple, however, ddw is still slower than a broad reach.

Dimitry,

I learned of a good, simple preventer setup on this board. Can't remember from whom. If you're sailing downwind and are concnerned about an accidental gybe, just uncleat your lifeline pelican hook and pull it around the inside of the mainsheet. Then re-attach it. If the main tries to gybe, the lifeline will catch the sheet before the boom can come near the centerline. Viola, instant preventer. Just put it all back to original config before you change to a closer point of sail.

Cheers,
Leon

[Night Sailor]

Three years ago, with 150 genoa wing and wing, I hit 9 mph per GPS, going ddw in 20 mph of steady wind for about five miles. Normal crew of two and usual cruising load. Maybe one help is adjusting sail shape with an adjustable whisker pole. I made one for my self that adjusts from 8' to 16'. That's long enough to take the clew of the genoa almost out even with tack, with the foot almost straight, very little curve. The boat handles easily and well with the centerboard up about 50%. Full ballast of course. One factor may be that my boat is perfectly balanced relative to the bootstripe/waterline measurements. Another factor may have been the wind rose from 10 to 20 steadily as I was heading away from a dam, so I had smooth fresh water (less than 1' chop) to sail in. The whole boat felt as though it were riding higher in the water, and we were putting out a lot of spray on the side. It was also one of the few times I had the motor tilted full up.
I haven't had those conditions since.

[delevi]

Sounds like a nice ride Nightsailor. I had a similar sail up the Sacramento Delta, sailing downwind all day long, jib winged out on the whisper pole. for about 45 miles. That trip inspired me to get a spinnaker. I'm still looking forward to the opportunity of using my A-spin downwind, but haven't had conditions light enough. Anything over 15 knots is probably not a good idea with the spin.

[Scott]

Anything over 15 knots is probably not a good idea with the spin.

Agreed, My brother and I have tried this and can attest to the wisdom proscribed here!!

The only way to sail wing on wing is to use a whisker pole for the headsail.

No whisker, granted its a spin but we sail all the time no pole with the Genoa wing on.

[maddmike]

I've got to agree with Scott on this one. On a number of long hauls downwind (For example, St. Martin to Aruba; Trinidad to Panama) I spent quite a bit of time wing & wing with the 'Genny' without a pole. However, always in winds less than 22 kts, sometimes on auto pilot (but watching carefully), never for more than a few hrs. at a time and never at night. The only time I would have problems was when the boat hit the bottom of big swells and I lost the wind altogether, otherwise the headsail usually stayed full (preventer on the main). FYI, I also discovered it is possible to stay dead downwind without an autopilot (my first one failed at sea) by stowing the main and backwinding the jib with the rudders locked dead ahead; the boat would continue directly downwing unattended at about 2.5 to 3.5 kts. quite a help when your dead tired, alone without an autopilot and on a downwind run far at sea. MM

[Catigale]

I goosewing with my 150 genny routinely and generally dont use the whisker pole...you are correct that one must steer constantly - especially on the puffy upper Hudson..

..and you have to be really careful if you turn up onto a broad reach, where you quickly learn about apparent wind...I came closest to knockdown doing this once.

[parrothead]

We opted for the standard jib, with intentions of adding an asym (currently on order). It is nearly impossible to keep the jib filled DDW without a pole, but using one fabricated from a 12' telescoping boathook, we find that downwind sailing is the Mac's strong point. For a preventer, we clip the vang to the forward stanchion (the baby stay loop is ideal for this) - this gives great control of the shape of the main. We also relocate the mainsheet attachment outboard to the stanchion by the winch, resulting in more direct sheeting than having it drape over the lifeline. Raise the board (on the M, about 2" below fully topped out = flush with the bottom of the hull, which = minimum drag) and you have a great downwind performer. On the Chesapeake, you can run like this for many miles, and we routinely outdistance larger sailboats with masthead-rigged genoas. Of course, we won't talk about comparative upwind performance!

[Richard O'Brien]

Leon and Nightsailor, Where to you connect your whisker pole? I still have trouble with the 150 genoa collapsing , and figure your solutions might work gor me. How do you trim? also. thanks, Rich.

[Catigale]

Rich - you screw an eye onto your mast facing forward - on end of the pole clips onto this (usually with a wire safety loop as well) and the other end either goes through the clew (spike type) or clips onto the working sheet (clip type)

If the wind reverses when you are poled out, they snap like carrots by the way...so Im told....

[delevi]

Rich,

Catigale pretty much answered the question. I have gybed with pole attached, but you have to be very careful. I don't put mine through the clew directly, I have a small piece of line looped through the clew to which I attach one end. The other goes to the eye attached to the mast. Mine is 6', extendable to 12' made by Forespar. I have snapped a few attachments. They aren't very durable, but replacement parts are sold.

I have a standard jib. I guess you guys with genoas can keep them full DDW w/o a pole. I should have said jib, rather than headsail, since my only headsail is a jib and a-spin. I haven't tried DDW with spin yet.

Leon

[Scott]

I haven't tried DDW with spin yet.

Its not very fast and if its hot it makes the wind onboard dead so it gets hotter.

The a-sym is far superior wih the wind off the aft quarter than DDW. What you lose in distance you more than make up in speed.



Note the falloff at DDW, I find this true with all sails. The only one I cant speak to is the SYM Spin as I dont have one.

[Catigale]

Scott - I have flown the factory A-spin from two sheets attached to the genoa tracks dead down wind and gotten 6-7 mph with this which is pretty respectable for an

Cant remember if I lifted the board or not....

It was pretty hard to control, as in I didnt really...

[delevi]

How do you trim?

Same as w/o a pole to a point. Don't trim in hard. Keep the pole to just below 90 degrees to the mast/beam, just a bit in front towards the bow to be safe. If you trim past the 90 degree range, the attachments could either come undone, if you're lucky, or break. I learned to install the pole with furled sail. Once the pole is attached, then unfurl. This is by far the easiest and safest way to do it. Haven't broken anything since I converted to this method. Seems like I learn everything the hard way

[Catigale]

....Oh and clip the whisker pole from the bottom of the eye, not the top...this lets it move more without breaking the fitting.

Thanks to someone on this board I cannot remember.....

[Richard O'Brien]

Many thanks Leon, Cat:

I'm trying to find out if there is a consensus on the best downwind rig yet.
It seems like the asym cruiser is the best perhaps, but why did Mike Inmon nearly broach with one? It is 350 sq. ft., but so much smaller than the racing spinnaker. Has anyone seen how Blue water Yachts "Pearl" is doing with one? Is it possible to invent your own bowsprit hooked up to the pulpit somehow? I wonder if Roger abandoned the racing kite because of difficulty handling, or ?? My club assesses a 10-12 pt. penalty if you add a spinnaker. That makes the wing on wing very appealing. I always figured the "planing" hull in the aft section of powersailors might lend themselves more to assymetrics,(to much wetted surface, unless it's heeled), but now I'm wondering if that's an advantage.