Update on my docking with the new Mac

Nettech · Post by **Nettech** » Wed May 31, 2006 9:48 am

I just figured I would let you guys know, with the great tip to lower the centerboard while docking with a good breeze blowing, does the trick. I can put it where I want it now. We are still happy with the Mac, she is a little slower that our past sail boats, and does not point near as good. But overall we are happy. Well, the Admiral is VERY happy, so that means "we" are happy. Thanks guys for the tip. HEY FRANK....if you read this, how goes the sailing lessons? The Admirial is ASA keelboat certified now also. You think she was an Admiral before? Sheeeeeesh.

Frank C · Post by **Frank C** » Wed May 31, 2006 2:57 pm

Nettech wrote: ... The Admirial is ASA keelboat certified now also. You think she was an Admiral before? Sheeeeeesh.

More info at end of June, after the 27-foot keelboat class.
We'll learn to dock under sail!

Nettech · Post by **Nettech** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:39 am

When we were taking our classes, our instructor would not allow an outboard on the boat. We had to rig and leave the dock under sail, and return that way also. There was a couple of times when the wind direction prevented this, and he would just call the marina for a tow out or in. We told him about the mac, and had to brag about the 50hp. He HATES it. But we did learn alot his way.

Catigale · Post by **Catigale** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:40 am

our instructor would not allow an outboard on the boat

This sort of 'purist' crap should be disregarded when one is learning boat handling at most levels...are you going to learn how to dock under sail faster because you dont have a motor? Of course not. You will probably take longer dealing with the hull repair claims.

I view the motor kind of like learning to dead stick land a plane....leave the motor idling and in, and use it to correct a gross mistake...you can also use it to get you away from the dock and start over...

Of course, approaching my finger dock in 5 feet of water, no board, changing wind on a tidal river under sail is not seamanship, just foolhardiness no matter what your skill level.

Frank C · Post by **Frank C** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:30 pm

It's an inboard diesel. Sailing onto the dock is just an emergency exercise for that occasion where the motor fails. After all, they're trying to prepare us to sail their own fleet -
guess they should know the risks~!

I was motoring to dock with the Capri 22 when the outboard quit. It was a noisy Merc 4hp 4-stroke that was a h#ll to start, so I just coasted the last 20 yards ... instructor wanted me to restart the d@mn thing ... told him I was tired of busting knuckles.

AWKIII · Post by **AWKIII** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 1:17 pm

Catigale wrote:
our instructor would not allow an outboard on the boat
This sort of 'purist' crap should be disregarded when one is learning boat handling at most levels...are you going to learn how to dock under sail faster because you dont have a motor? Of course not. You will probably take longer dealing with the hull repair claims.

I disagree. How would you get at 420, 470, Soling, Shields or any other non-powered sailboat to a slip?

This excercise is not "purist crap" in any way, shape or form. It has been standard curriculum in sailing schools for years.

If that big 50 craps out in a crowded harbor, I would think most would like to have the knowledge and peace of mind that they are going to get back in one piece.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 1:39 pm

While we have sailed to dock many times and almost all the time when landing at the restaurant marina, (show off). I would like to see someone sail into dock every time at our marina.

It sits in a cove on the east side of the lake on the north side of a hill with a well tree'd hook point at the south western corner.

Just trying to get from the cove enterance to the dock in a straight line can start at a run turn broad and go to a beat then irons followed by a shift to the other side.

The wind generally comes from the southwest and swirls into the cove. When we had our Prindle most of the time I just dropped the sails half way to the ramp and paddled.

Catigale · Post by **Catigale** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 1:43 pm

I think you missed my point AWK...

Should you master learning how to dock under sail?

Certainly, as a skill set appropriate for the intermediate or higher level of skill.

Should you somehow feel inadequate because you cant do this yet?

No.

SHould you spend time your first year with the boat trying to learn this?

Probably not.

I was reacting to the "instructor wouldnt allow outboards on the boat" mantra as being someone with some kind of purist agenda, as opposed to someone truly interested in teaching sailing.

AWKIII · Post by **AWKIII** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 4:45 pm

Cat:

I was taught as a kid never to rely on auxilliary power. Oar included.

I grew up in Newport, R.I. and the harbor there can be a three ring circus. You had to deal with craft under power and sail, a large mooring field and lobster pots everywhere. I wasn't allowed to take the family boat out by myself until I could prove to the old man I could sail to the slip or a mooring and off it without looking at the inboard.

Most larger yacht clubs have their own fleet of boats for racing and/or rental. If you can't get one in or out of the slip, how can you rent one?

I think we rely on our engines too much these days to do too many things. When was the last time any of us have done MOB drills under sail?

I guess I put the ability to sail into a slip in the same category as MOB drills under sail. They are emergency procedures that every sailor should know and practice if possible.

Catigale · Post by **Catigale** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 5:25 pm

Arthur - you're about 8 levels of sailing ability above me, so I guess Im not surprised we have some different perspectives on this thread.

I just charted a Cat 34 out of Long Beach and came out of slip in a sheltered near zero wind harbor with about 38 feet of clearance between piers...I cant imagine sailing in or out of that and I was under explicit instructions from Pacific Marina to slip in/out under motor in fact.

I agree that practicing MOB and moorings under sail are important and necessary - we do them a couple of times a year under motor and sail - but Ive always felt for getting the boat back to safe harbor I can also sail close enough to dock to throw a line and then ease the boat in.

I did dock under sail in Wareham last year and did a pretty decent job ...came in under partially furled genny and zipped it in for the last 20 feet and sculled the rudders at the dock to kill the last momentum...and stepped off onto the dock.

Maybe 5 years from now I can approach your level .....look forward to it!!!

Frank C · Post by **Frank C** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 6:15 pm

AWKIII wrote: ... I was taught as a kid never to rely on auxilliary power. Oar included.

I grew up in Newport, R.I. and the harbor there can be a three ring circus. ..

I suppose I agree with you Awk - and with Stephen too! I'm self-taught on SF Bay for the past six years. As such, I"m very comfortable with beating through a big chop in whitecaps, but I'm terrified of going into any narrow channel under sail, much less a fairway of slips. The Mac's wind-suseptible freeboard plays a big part, but the comfortable reliability of a big outboard - especially one with rock-steady EFI - makes it feasible for us boating newcomers to participate in this sport without undue risk to our own hulls, others' hulls, or our rip-rap channel banks.

I suspect that it's not unusual for Macgregor owners to be solely self-taught, and I'd submit that's just fine for the vast majority of sailing venues. I feel I could easily have continued forever thusly if I was sailing inland lakes. As such, I can identify with everything in Catigale's post.

But with SF Bay, the NorCal coast, the SoCal Channel Islands, and Sea of Cortez as horizons, I took oppty to add some broader perspective. I knew that I suffered a gap in knowledge and skills that was unfortunate and perhaps dangerous in unforseen conditions. This ASA course seemed a good way to solve that problem. At only a boatBuck for the full 9 days of instruction, it was a no-brainer. It permits me to experience three different sizes of keelboats. That's a great way to hone skills and also to cross-compare the Mac's performance. AND, I'll end up with a bareboat Cert. (BTW - splitting the boat rentals w/a friend for that time span would cost nearly a thousand each - means that the instruction is almost free!)

During the first class we DID learn MOB recovery under sail, which was a wide-eye-opener! With that particular 22' sailboat, recovery under sail is surely 3 to 4 times faster than it would be to drop sail and use the motor. This makes it safer in time elapsed, also in avoiding use of the propeller. I've read of the figure-8 technique a dozen times since getting my boat, but actually DOING it ... simply amazing~! I'd never even have pondered it with the 26X ... but now I cannot even imagine the motoring alternative. Sailing to a MOB is probably mandatory knowledge for all who are sailing very cold waters. I'm very pleased with these classes and heartily endorse them. Next weekend I'll get to try the inboard 27-footer, and part of that class is docking under sail.

In conclusion I agree with you too. At least in any coastal areas, a skipper might indeed owe himself and his crew the investment in some formal sail instruction. Even if I never choose, or need, to dock under sail, I'm sure there's a terrific advantage in having had the exposure to those techniques.

As Stephen also observed, we don't need to always employ those techinques to value them. I won't denigrate any who haven't learned them ... but IMO there's a magnitude of benefit to gain in just a few days. And if, like Stephen, I can accomplish just one-eighth your lifetime of skills through the classes, I'll be happy.

delevi · Post by **delevi** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:48 pm

Frank,

I'm starting to wish I signed up for those classes with you. It's the busiest time of year for me with work, so I'll probably wait about 6 months, but certainly have it on my list. Glad to hear you're learning and benefiting from the course.

Leon

Dimitri-2000X-Tampa · Post by **Dimitri-2000X-Tampa** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 5:05 am

It is good to learn sailing into the dock techniques with smaller sailboats IMO. Then it is not so hard with bigger boats. It has everything to do with which way the wind is blowing in relation to the dock. I regularly crew on a 24 ft racing boat which goes in and out of St Pete municipal marina which is a big area with lots of traffic. Most of the time, we undock and dock with the sails. There is a wooden frame built over the concrete jetties so even if you bump it a bit, no big damage will occur. We might not attempt it so often if the wood was not there.

I've docked many boats by sail and I have to say that the MacX would be one of the most challenging since it is so squirly with its flat bottom, small rudders, and high freeboard. Like others have said, it is not generally worth trying to, especially for me where I have a .5 mile canal which has very bad wind in it..much different than an open harbor. Because I now keep my boat on a lift, I actually have to yank up the CB at the last minute so it doesn't hit the lift cradle as I'm driving in. The idea is to come in relatively fast (within reason) to maintain control, then fire the retro rockets at the last second. If it is very windy, even that last few feet with the CB up, the boat can go all over the place. But by then, my upright pvc pipes attached to the cradle tend to bracket the boat in.

Getting back to the original topic, be careful putting your board all the way down as you can cause problems if you are backing up in shallow water. I let the CB line out about 6 inches which is sufficient to get good directional control. Same goes with the rudders, you don't want to go backwards with them down in less than about 4-5 feet of water.

Catigale · Post by **Catigale** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 5:15 am

When we got our Island 17 out last summer I found out pretty quickly we dont even need to mount the motor on the boat! It sails away from dock easily and returns with just a breath of wind. Draws about 2 feet with the CB down, so we sail it in the shallow part of the dock off the jetty past all the warning cans and let people on the shore wave frantically at us.

Docking drill is pretty easy - about three boat lengths from dock main.jib halyards are released and we carry easily up the dock and snare a dock line....very predictable. The helm responds well at low speed...and of course with a 500# hull weight one or two strokes with a paddle corrects an undershoot...and a stiff leg corrects and overshoot

...None of which you can do with the Mac....

March · Post by **March** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 8:03 am

Small plane pilots are also trained to come in for landing with the engine cut off--an analogous situation, I guess. Yeah, it is nice and reassuring to know you can do it, if the engine happens to quit on the downwind leg, and be able to quickly judge how everything changes. But under normal situations, everyone jockeys the power to achieve the best and fastest touchdown, to get out of eveybody's way. Practicing the no-power approach "just in case" even before the engine chooses to quit is a good idea, though. Builds up confidence and skills, and that cannot be a bad thing

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Update on my docking with the new Mac

Update on my docking with the new Mac