Per Hour Fuel Usage of 50HP 25HP 15HP and Lower

[aya16]

Not sure what you are saying. The last post indicated that you are not real happy with the responces you got from these good people. (I might be wrong but, thats how I took it) All the responces I read seem to give the best of the best thought process that anyone could expect from strangers,or even good friends. All seemed to be informative and thought out plus some real welcome warm posts.

There is no perfect solution to what you asked, Mileage will be diff. for everyone but the numbers you recieved were good ball park estimates.
Having the money to do what was sugested doesnt really figure in here.
The responce you recieved here wont and cant factor in the money issue much all though we all tried somewhat.

I feel like you were the Ceo of a company and we all were the execs you asked to help solve a problem and you just fired us all because we werent good enough.

I think you received more information here then you would find anywhere
for free. I wish you luck and maybe a thank you guys for the effort would be better than not good enough guys.
Again good luck and hope all works out for you.
Mike

[Helaku]

Anyone that walks away from this resource in a huff after one thread is only hurting himself. I hope this person has some real blue water experience. It is easy to get all romantic about a dream and get yourself very injured or very dead. I grew up in Hawaii and have spent some nights out on a drift in fishing boats. The last boat I owned was a 37-foot Egg Harbor. I love these Macs, but they do not fill me with confidence as to their ability to handle real nasty weather when you have no chance of turning back before the weather hits you.

Just my opinion, take it for what it is worth.

[James V]

Helaku - The Mac's are a coastal cruiser NOT Blue Water. It is just not designed for that. Can the Mac take a 35 MPH wind and waves, Sure. But I would want to get to harbor as soon as I can. Take it days from shore - I would not as I want to live. If I wanted to do that (whick I do not) I would have bought a blue water boat. It can do a lot of things and take you a lot of places. 3rd largest reef, 4th larggest waterfalls, 3 largest river ect... Why go anyplace else when it is in our own back yard? Just not my thing that's all.

[Helaku]

James, I completely agree with you and that is my point. I have cofidence in Macs doing what they are designed to do. I often think that people fool themselves into thinking that because people successfuly sail to the Bahamas and the like, that these boats can handle really foul weather. There are IMO too many novice sailors getting their hopes up for success when failure can cost them thier lives.

[Jeff S]

One of the nice things about the bigger motors is the ability to outrun some weather. Careful planning and obervation are the first line of defense.

This thread is obviously based on fuel economy. There has been some discussion as to power requirements that are informative. Interestingly there has been limited mention of reliability. In Gene's situation I think I would be as concerned if not more concerned about reliability AND ease of maintenance (which was mentioned). Hand starting is a plus in these cases. Reliability would be paramount to me if I had one engine and was doing cruising away from the towing service areas. If it broke I would want it simple enough to work on and as mentioned the ability to hand start. The next thing would be fuel economy. I think dual 18's like Mike suggested are right in the ball park- spare parts built in if required, decent fuel economy on one motor, power enough when required- just pick a reliable motor in this range.

I have hand started my Tohatsu 50 a few times very easily. I am not really worried if the batts die, and that piece of mind is nice. It is a reliable motor, very low maintenance. It is lousy on gas and noise/emissions however. I would pick a smaller Tohatsu in a heartbeat- if I was in your situation- they actually specialize in the smaller motors.

The 18hp 4-stroke Tohatsu lists about 1.5 gallons per hour fuel consumption, meets the 2008 CARB 3 star emissions requirements, can be hand started and electrically started, should be reliable (My exp. w/Tohatsu YMMV), and is probably quieter than a 2 stroke.

The 9.9 gives 1.1 gph, but obviously at a much reduced power output that may be needed and only a 6a alternator. The Tohatsu 18 at 1.5 gph and 18hp with an 11amp alternator and 4 stroke noise/emissions, hand starting capability and dual engine redundancy you would have a pretty sweet cruising setup. I would recommend the 4 -6 gallon tank setup mentioned in this thread. You could get up to 16 hours at full throttle. (vice less than 4 hours listed for the carb'd 2 stroke 50 at 5.2 gph). Not sure how fast that would move a clean boat though. Electric start w/20" shaft around $2500/each plus installation (est from web).

Jeff S

[genebesch]

The advice I have received here and other boards has convinced me that I would be making a mistake buying a MacGregor. I think they are great boats but I have decided that I will be making my trip in something that has an inboard engine. I am looking at boats that have low drafts but will probably end up with 3'6" which is not my favorite.

Some recent comments talk about Blue Water Ability and I have done a lot of bluewater but in my Coronado 30 not a Mac. I know that I felt safe during storms on the Coronado.

I hope to find something with a lower draft but comfort will be primary, next to the fact that I will be making an inboard my first priority. I will also mount a 5 hp as I have done on my other boats. This backup makes one feel safe.

I hope to see Mac's as I leave on my journey as I think they would make great trip boats but, the several thousand pounds gained by a bigger boat can make it more comfortable.

I will be buying this boat someplace up north and taking the Journey out of the Great Lakes and hopefully through the Trent Severne in Canada.

One reason I wanted the Mac was ease of lowering the mast and I will miss this.

Anyone desiring to follow my journey is welcome and they can visit my website http://genesadventures.com Listed below in Related Links.

Again Thank you for all of your opinions. Just hope I don't spend half of my time aground on the ICW

Gene

[cuisto]

a full keel boat will have real problems in the trent severn waterway in some areas also mast up it is not possible in some legs of the trip. I have not made this trip but have been advised by others.

The trent severn has a web site with some specs

also I have a 24 shark for sale $1000 cdn. performs well but needs cosmetic work and some upgrades if interested

[Jim Bunnell]

genebesch - two alternatives you might want to consider

1 - Go with a multihull. Comfort level is high, but you'll need professional help with the mast, I believe.

2 - Get one of the various British fin keel designs. Most have fairly shallow draft, and many have easy to handle mast systems (many of their rivers and canals don't have opening bridges).

Just a thought. Good luck on your choice.

[kmclemore]

Agree with those above... Macs are good boats, but purpose-built for a niche market - coatal cruising, lake sailing/powering, and overnighting in moderately quiet areas.

Can a Mac run in Blue Water? Sure. But to me it's a bit like racing a 20-foot camper-van on the track at Daytona International Speedway... why would you ever want to do it when there are better options?

(I was gonna say 'like hammering in a nail with a pair of pliers', but then I realised that some folks on the forum probably do that! )

[DLT]

You know, I actually have a pair of channel locks with a hammer head on the back of one of the jaws...

[James V]

I personally do would not feel safe with any coastal cruiser in BLUE WATER. I think that the M can take a lot but it is more than what I would want to endure and repair when the alternatives are not that much different. I could have gotten a Flicka and paid a little more with the refurbishing included. Slower yes, more expensive, yes, less space, yes. Handle the blue water, yes. Do I want to handle the Blue water, NO. Not in a boat smaller than 50 feet.

I'll just not go to different lands. Wait for the weather and stay close to shore, no more than 75 miles away for me in a small boat, Blue water or not.

The Mac is great at anchor and coastal passage making. The 1 1/2 foot needed when motoring is Great for Fl and Bahamas and the coastal/inland USA. More to see and do than what I have time or money for. I want to see how far I can get.

[genebesch]

It has long been known that a boat of 30 feet is the ideal length for Blue Water cruising Longer boats tend to have to bear up on sets of waves instead of single waves.

The vast Majority of single-handers use boats from 25 to 35 feet and most make it.

I lost two friends who decided it was only safe in a 50 foot boat. Theres was made of feral concrete and a very strong boat. The reason we know where it went down is there were reports from three 30 footers who watched as the big boat turned over in waves between 20 and 30 feet.

The thirties all made it to safe shores, though they were a little beat up.

[Jeff S]

The shallow draft for coastal and inland cruising and the draft/weight required for "comfortable" blue water sailing are mutually exclusive. Shallow draft boats are not designed for blue water sailing- they may be able to sustain some blue water work, but are not particularly adept at doing so. Likewise the blue water deep keel boats that provide piece of mind and comfort are a chore in the inland areas.

Sailing and motoring in the coastal areas of Eastern NC the Mac is an excellent boat. A friend has a 38' boat with a 6' keel and is constantly bumping around- he has to be very detailed in his planning and vigilant with the tides and depths. It is a lot of work just to keep that boat from grounding around here. It is a very stout blue water boat however. He hasn't used it blue water though- go figure. He remarks that the Mac is the perfect boat for these waters and we have sailed/motored together much more on the Mac than on his boat. If I were to need a blue water boat I would rather be on his however.

Madmike is the best resource for someone who has experience on extended cruising in the Mac that I know of. He took his Mac and made extensive modifications to make it better suited to cruising. The shoal draft boat to which you refer Gene would be better suited to your blue water needs than the Mac. Multihulls as mentioned are a good alternative, but pricey-- have you looked at the Gemini 105? (or older models 3400 and 3000)- They have kick up asymmetric centerboards and can be beached (friend has done this) with 18" draft boards up. They have one inboard (diesel generally- can have outboards) with a stilleto drive that come out of the water (pretty nifty) and can have an outboard backup. The only downside is the loud slap on the center section going to weather in rougher conditions- mainly annoying, the boat seems to be tough enough. The designer (Tony Smith- Performance Cruising, Inc) doesn't tout it as a blue water designed boat, but is has made a transatlantic crossing and is more capable and comfortable in blue water than a Mac (also more comfortable for living).

Personally I would save a little extra money and get the right set up before going on such a big trip. The used Geminis have a tendency to blister a bit, so a good inspection there would be worthwhile. This is the boat that I aspire to when I done with the powerboating aspect of the Mac and want to do more extended cruising (read- when I am retired)- I like the shallow draft. I really like the Seawind 1160 but it is a few order of magnitudes more expensive and has more draft (3'2").

In any case..."Fair winds and following seas on your journey" I will follow your website with interest.

Jeff S

[genebesch]

Funny you mentioned a Gemini, as I have been looking at that boat for several years. Unfortunately, I do not make enough money, or have enough time left to save the couple of hundred grand for a good one.

The newer models do not slap as much and There are people who have taken them around the world.

Regarding Bluewater boats, it is a myth that most have exterme deep keels. If you go to Key West and sail on the large barefoot sailing boats you might be surprised to learn that many have very shallow keels. One that is forsale has a 36' draft.

The other feature of this trip is that it is not really a Blue Water trip. The Bahmas are only about 60 miles from Miami area to Chub Cay this single triip is the only real Bluewater trip and is taken daily by boats of all sizes. They must watch the weather and it is safer to leave at night.

There are reports of people going in 16 foot runabouts.

The rest of the journey is broken into similiar nightly trips. The night lees and common sense are what is required. Also, the boats best known for sailing in the Bahamas have 3'6" drafts such as the Morgan Out Island 28. This boat was the leading selling boat for journeys to the Bahamas. There are also many others similar to this boat.

If we all waited until we could afford a Gemini, nobody would be out there to take the anchorages.

My journeys are about making a decision, getting just enough money to make it possible and go. My first journey was in a boat that cost only $2,000 and I sailed it across Lake Superior, Lake Huron, Lake Erie, on the Open Atlantic and in the dangerous sounds along the ICW. This boat had a 3' keel and still hit bottom on 46 occassions. These were times where forward progress was interupted buy only 3 times resulted in having to work the boat off, which i did by using the outboard and swinging the boat back into deep water, instead of backing up and causing more trouble.

My journeys are intended to be an insperation to get people going on their dream journeys. I have met too many people wishing they could afford a half million dollar boat to go on a journey

That is the main reason I considered a Mac because I believe with all my heart that it will safely make all the trips but not with a 50 hp but something much smaller.

As for resale, if I were looking for a used boat, I would be impressed that I can still afford the option of moving a 5 hp to backup status and buying a new motor if that were my choice. The reason I have not purchased a used X or M is that they all come with too big of a motor for my personal desires.

Don't wait to take a journey looking for a big boat, or an expensive boat, it is the ability of the person(s) making the journey that gets it done safely.

[Night Sailor]

Gene has hit the cruising ideal on the mark. Too many wait to fill their dreams later, not realizing that day may not come due to unforeseen circumstances. Seamanship and desire is a lot more important than the boat which is sailed. Witness kayaks and dugout canoes rowboats crossing big oceans.
After one passes 65 yrs of age, it's easier to assess what one has and make the most of it. Younger guys and gals might think the perfect time and boat will come, but it does for very few.

No matter what you have in a boat, prepare yourself first, then the boat, plan your route, then go.