Batteries

[argonaut]

It's spring so lots of folks are probably finding out how their electricals are.
I noticed my batteries, dual group 24 Deka marine (whatever that is) weren't holding a charge last time out. No idea how old, but the boat's a '97.
So I started shopping and came up with Trojan group 27s for $110.
Just thought that was a pretty fair price for AGMs.
Practical Sailor Review
I don't subscribe but they appear to be decent batteries from the review.
Anyone else used these?
The Optimas were pretty pricy and only made in two sizes I think. Another thread here explains the sizes and capacities.
I also found Odysseys but didn't run across Lifelines anywhere.

[DLT]

Where you gonna put group 27s?

I recommend you look real hard at where/how you plan to mount them...

You said your old batteries are group 24. If there isn't a whole lot of space around them, group 27s won't fit there...

[They Theirs]

Costco batteries work for us.Good Price.great selection..second choice Wal-Mart
I believe the late 04 and 05M models have larger battery compartment under the cabin ladder
Note 03/early 04 smaller battery storage

Late 04 Batter storage compartment raised base and enlarged

05 Battery Storage compartment

[Harrison]

Right now West Marine is selling Group 24 batteries on sale for $39.99. I think that may even be better than Walmart.

---Harrison

[argonaut]

Where you gonna put group 27s?

I recommend you look real hard at where/how you plan to mount them...

These just do slip into the galley box but I decided to separate them.


#1 G27 is going next to galley for the motor, where dual G24s were.
I also had a flooded cell backup battery on a platform under the fwd dinette seat.
I'm replacing that with #2 AGM to distribute weight. (65 lbs)
Both are bolted to the glass with U-brackets.

In the spare room in the original location I'm installing a triple battery switch bank to have motor, house and cross-connect switches.

[James V]

There is a down side to the AGM batteries and that is equalizeing the AGM's. Although I am not an expert on this. The SSCA board has a discussion. You may want to review this before you buy.

http://www.ssca.org/sscabb/index.php?ac ... topic=2661

[Night Sailor]

I looked at Trojan, Durette, Lifeline, etc. and found a lot of commercial fishermen swear by them... in much larger sizes. A hundreds pounds or more each.

Storage space already being limited on my X, and knowing full well that when all the mods for long distance curising were done the boat would weigh hundreds of pounds more than stock, I chose the Optima batteries. They had performed well in my RV, trucks and race cars. The spiral cell technology allowd a smaller case than standard so I could use a minimum amount of storage space for three batteries. They only weigh 43 lbs a pieice which was welcome.

I use a system of three Blue Sea on/off switches to separate or combine 1 start and 2 house batteries, as per West marine advisor recommendations and find it really works the best of any setup I've seen.

I use a West Marine 50 amp battery combiner to distribute the charge to all batteries in the system, whether it's from the Merc 50's alternator, the electronic three stage 110v charger, or the solar panel, all of which charge the starting battery first, before electronically switching over to charge the house batteries.

My power problems ended after I set this up. And it's just about idiot proof if one had occasional landlubbers for crew. Just label the switches and there is no danger of them getting the wrong position. Just turn them on and leave on until you park the boat again.

[Tom Spohn]

We have had excellent results with Trojan batteries. Best to buy from a dealer that has a lot of turnover. Fresher is better.

Our best results in two boats come from two 6 volt batteries wired in series for 12 volts. Using the Dyno D145 we get 245 amp/hrs.

http://www.dynobattery.com/prod01.htm

[Paul S]

on our 04M I installed 2 group 27 batteries. One in the factory location (under factory larger/raised cover) and one under the port seat (with the inverter and 3 BEP battery switch setup). Fits just fine. Went with flooded Rolls batteries. Not a huge fan of agm/gel batteries (cost;can't add water)




Paul

[They Theirs]

West Marine sale going, start battery 525cranking amp on sale $40 bucks
West Marine has a 20% Sale going at their Retail Stores
West Marine

[Frank C]

We have had excellent results with Trojan batteries. Best to buy from a dealer that has a lot of turnover. Fresher is better.

Our best results in two boats come from two 6 volt batteries wired in series for 12 volts. Using the Dyno D145 we get 245 amp/hrs. http://www.dynobattery.com/prod01.htm

Tom,
Thanks for interesting comments. You and Paul are both favoring wet cells. Regarding your choice of 6-volt wet cells, you mention both Trojan and Dyno batts ... are you equating them? And do you recall the approx costs of those golfcar batts?

I'm looking to be pushed over into the 6-volt camp, but it seems to me that two demerits attach to the 6-volt choice:
1. A loss of redundancy compared with dual 12-volt batts;
2. While roughly the size of a Gp27, most 6-volters are an inch taller,
so I'm doubting they'll fit into my battery boxes #@!

[Frank C]

This thread is valuable for exposing some of the compromises that we "just knew" had to attach to all of those marvelous, modern, AGM benefits. Regarding AGM demerits, my 12-volt wet cells have survived just fine over the past six years with only sporadic recharging by a Suzuki DF60 (25 AMPS, max). I suppose a couple of AGMs might fare okay with the same charging system.

But it would be nearly impossible for me to 'conveniently' provide those ....
semi-annual, 3-hour "equalizing sessions," purportedly required in the earlier link. I'd need to move the boat to my Marina's single lonely AC power receptacle, park there for a half-day, and plug-in an AC car-charger.

This is clearly not an issue for those with a dockside AC hook-up, but it's a PITA for my situation. Hoping the resident electricians can answer some neophyte puzzlements:

A- Does anyone have other commentary on "equalizing" AGMs?
B- Does anyone have a recommendation about a mixed bank, one wet, one AGM?
C- Has anyone "embedded" a modern smart charger into their Mac?
D- How is it connected to handle mixed batts, (assuming just one, deep-cycle bank)?

[jsserene]

Frank, I believe that you cannot equalize an AGM battery becaused it is sealed. As for mixing batteries, I have had my mystery wet cell battery as my starting battery and two group 24 AGM batteries as my house battery for two years now and no problems. I have a battery combiner and charge them with an off board charger hooked to the house battery.

[Night Sailor]

I've been using red, yellow and blue Optmia batteries for 10 years now, still have the originals in service, and they have never needed anything but normal charging by a 10 amp, three stage automotive charger on rare occasions when it was convenient, but mostly by the 14 amp Merc 50 alternator, then kept topped off with the solar panel. Optimas charge the fastest of any battery. You can apply 200 amps to replace the 50 amps you used yesterday if you have the source. In the cars, trucks, RVs and boats, they sometimes set for months without use, but don't lose a tenth of a volt. They are the no gas, no add water, no corrosion, mount anywhere you please in any position answer to my elecrtic power problems. The are smaller and lighter than others in teh same group. The amp rating is not as high but they last longer in use with a steady output for electrics or motors. See my post above for how I manage them on the boat.

Best price I've found in the last few years was from www.remybattery.com in michigan, shipped to my door.

[Frank C]

Thanks guys, but I'm confused by these other links, provided earlier in this thread:

AGM batteries were designed to live happily for long periods on float voltage and, when called for deliver full capacity discharge. Typically AGM batteries are difficult to recharge fully unless a high float voltage is maintained for many hours after the absorption cycle completes. ...

Of course marketing trumps technical information, especially it seems, in the battery business. AGM batteries were originally sold as not needing equalization. It turns out they do, and apparently quite frequently. Even then, users are having difficulty getting them to fully charge. We have no advice on how to achieve that other then applying a float voltage for 8-24 hours after the end of the absorption cycle.

This is how you equalize AGM's:

Details provided by Lifeline indicate that the equalization process involves "charging" the battery at 15.5 VDC for a 3 hour period. During this process the current acceptance of the battery will slowly drop from 3 – 5 amps to slightly more than .5 amps during the 3 hour equalization period. I’m sure that there are other methods for doing the equalization that are probably acceptable – if in doubt contact Lifeline. The key to the equalization though is maintaining the equalization voltage at 15.5VDC for 3 hours.

Note: The following procedure was utilized because my power supply was not capable of providing a stable regulated source of 15.5VDC at more than 3 amps. Even with the batteries fully charged, each of the GP 27/31 batteries may draw 3 – 5 amps when the equalization process is initiated. So in my case, with 5 individual batteries in the house bank, initial equalization current could easily have exceeded 20 amps.