courtesy flags

bob lee · Post by **bob lee** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 8:53 am

here's a question for you guys, how many fly the "courtesy flag" when in another countries waters? as is tradition, i was taught that you fly a smaller flag of the country you are in, above your flag, in a position of honour.

but last summer was suprised to see few boats doing it. what about you guys? standard practice?

Harrison · Post by **Harrison** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:34 am

I too would like to know. Additionally, arent they to be flown from the starbord spreader, not the port side?

---Harrison

bob lee · Post by **bob lee** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:39 am

harrison;

i think so, space and rigging permitting, the main focus is it has to be in a higher position

macsailor · Post by **macsailor** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:41 am

I too havnt seen to many visiting boats flying a courtesy flag. It is flown on the stbd spreader

Terry · Post by **Terry** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:51 am

Flags? There is a discussion on it here:
http://www.sailboatowners.com/forums/pv ... 7203217.14

It sounds like your home country flag is flown from the stern and courtesy flag from starboard shroud or flag halyard.
But I have another setup, maybe someone can help me around my problem. Every flag pole I come across has to fit on a horizontal bar so that it is perpendicular to the fitting and therefore stands verticle. Well, I have the '03M with no horizontal stainless steel (manufacturing cost cut), unlike the newer models that have the mast crutch arch or stern rail seats, mine has the pedestal/binnacle crutch so all I have for SS is stanchions. Nowhere can I find an attachement that connects poles parallel so that I can have a flag pole connect to a stanchion. Solution: attach my larger Canadian home flag with those little spring thingys to the starboard shroud and attache my smaller American courtesy flag on a little pole to the horizontal bow pulpit. This may not be necsessarily correct but it is all I have and I moor in an American marina slip 6 months of the year so I should display both. I live 15 minutes drive from this marina right at the 49th parallell, nice little marina. Anyone know where I can get a fitting that connects parallel poles, none of the marina stores here can help me? Hard to imagine with all the sailboats that have stanchions in the world!

David Mellon · Post by **David Mellon** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:20 pm

If you are an American citizen please remember that our flag is to be flown above any other flag on display. This probably doesn't apply to the Canadian flag, I wouldn't know. Just a word from an old Boy Scout.

David Mellon · Post by **David Mellon** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:20 pm

Hey Terry, I was cruisin' the West Marine site for bimini parts. It occured to me that two Bimini Jaw Slides with the jaws mated could support a flag staff. It might take some time to find ones with the proper dimension, but the finished product should look decent.

Chip Hindes · Post by **Chip Hindes** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:45 pm

The National Ensign is to be flown from a stern mounted flagstaff, or from the luff of the mains'l approximately 2/3 of the way up the leech. The courtesy flag is to be flown from the starboard spreader. This is also where you fly the yellow "Q" flag before clearing customs. The idea is, once you've cleared customs, you replace the Q flag with the courtesy flag.

There is no provision or procedure for flying the courtesy foreign flag from the same staff or halyard as the National Ensign.

Courtesy foreign flags are just that: a courtesy to the country you're visiting. The fact that nobody else is doing it is is pretty much irrelevant.

When the Conch Cruisers have made our trips to Bimini, we encourage all members to display both the National Ensign and the courtesy flag of the Bahamas. Most do.

BTW, it is technically not appropriate for U.S. citizens to fly foreign flags to indicate ethnicity or "I've been there" when in U.S. waters.

If you are an American citizen please remember that our flag is to be flown above any other flag on display.

This is a common misconception, and typically applies only when the National Ensign is flown on the same halyard as another flag. The actual reqirement is that no other flag be flown higher than the the National ensign. There are technical exceptions when afloat. For instance, the yacht club burgee is appropriately flown from a halyard at the top of the mainmast, which is typically the highest point on the boat. Any other flag on the boat will be lower. A National Ensign flown from a stern staff will be lower than the courtesy flag flown from the spreader.

bob lee · Post by **bob lee** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:11 am

chip , thanks for your input, that answers a few points for me.

david: not clear on what you ment about "may not apply to the canadian flag" but if you mean do we have a requirement that our flag fly higher, i had a look and was suprised to see this:
The National Flag of Canada should be displayed only in a manner befitting this important national symbol; it should not be subjected to indignity or displayed in a position inferior to any other flag or ensign. The National Flag always takes precedence over all other national flags when flown in Canada. The only flags to which precedence is given over the Canadian flag are the personal standards of members of the Royal Family and of Her Majesty

as a result, when flown in the usa on a canadian ship, the courtesy flag (smaller, always) of the country being visited flys in a position of honour above

Chip Hindes · Post by **Chip Hindes** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:07 am

Bob Lee wrote:as a result, when flown in the usa on a canadian ship, the courtesy flag (smaller, always) of the country being visited flys in a position of honour above

Sorry Bob, stupid me missed the fact you were Canadian.

Very interesting differences between the flag etiquette of the USA and Canada. You'd assume there might be some international agreement or understanding at work here, but obviously the two couldn't be much different.

In my experience, in the U.S. not one person in five displays their flags correctly. Most don't display the National Ensign at all.

OK, I admit I frequently forget to strike my Ensign at sundown.

Until I saw your post, if I had seen a Canadian boat flying a smaller US flag above a larger Canadian flag, I'd assume you were just another dumb Yank who had no idea how to properly display the National Ensign.

Pouw Geuzebroek · Post by **Pouw Geuzebroek** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:07 pm

Interesting topic. We in Europe have the same system as Chip describes. The national flag on the stern and the courtesy flag from the starboard spreader.
Beware that if you fly a courtesy flag that it is the correct one. Many continental Europeans use the 'wrong' union jack when sailing to the UK. The proper courtesy flag for the UK is the Red Ensign.

Bill at BOATS 4 SAIL · Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:22 pm

I think I've got this figured out.
If I sail in canada, with Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, or any other member of the Royal Family, aboard my boat, their standards are flown above the Canadian flag.
Otherwise the Canadian Flag is on top.

bob lee · Post by **bob lee** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:43 pm

bill,

if you're sailing with her, not to worry, she probably has "people" who look after that for her :)

Chip Hindes · Post by **Chip Hindes** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:40 am

You think our Brit, Canadian, and Ozzie friends would be offended if we made jokes about Her Majesty the Queen always being on top?

bob lee · Post by **bob lee** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:19 am

only if you don't get offended with us assuming its "w" on the bottom :)

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