26M daggerboard only 3' long?? Nylon tied shackles..oh my

[Paul S]

I thought the daggerboard on the M was somewhere in the 57" range (draft 69" board down - 12" draft board up =57" working board length)

I just measured the safety line on my M. It was 36". That is 21" shorter working length than spec. That assumes the board is even with the bottom of the hull.

Can this be right? I know this is our first sailboat and we are a bit green, but it just doesn't seem right.

Another minor thing. I assume that nylon is not the prefered method of securing shackles.

Here are some pics that I took tonight:
http://home.comcast.net/~testdelete/mac ... index.html


Paul S

[Frank C]

A zip-tie is not very salty as a pin safety, but i think it's just as effective as a stainless wire. I use them on the rudder shackles that I added. Cannot recall if I have them anywhere else, but I wouldn't hesitate.

[Sea Dragon]

Paul, You are correct -- the safety line should be longer than 57" because that is maximum travel of the board. The instructions I got with my new board was to secure the safety line so as to allow no more than 57" of travel. Good luck, John Little

[Paul S]

Paul, You are correct -- the safety line should be longer than 57" because that is maximum travel of the board. The instructions I got with my new board was to secure the safety line so as to allow no more than 57" of travel. Good luck, John Little

Is the length of the line OK (59") or does it need to be longer?

I didn't know what made me look at the safety line, but it is a good thing I did.

Paul

[Sea Dragon]

Paul, The safety line needs to be long enough to be fed through the hasp at the top of the dagger board trunk (the small hole not the slot with the pully mounted on it) and with the board all the way up have no more than 57" between the hasp and the knot at the end of the line. The idea is to not allow the board to travel more than 57" down the trunk. I shortened mine to about 54" to make sure stretching of the line did not allow the top of the board to slip out of the trunk. John L

[Paul S]

Paul, The safety line needs to be long enough to be fed through the hasp at the top of the dagger board trunk (the small hole not the slot with the pully mounted on it) and with the board all the way up have no more than 57" between the hasp and the knot at the end of the line. The idea is to not allow the board to travel more than 57" down the trunk. I shortened mine to about 54" to make sure stretching of the line did not allow the top of the board to slip out of the trunk. John L

So if I put the knot at the end of the line say ~55"-57" from the hole to the knot should be OK. I may error on the 55 or so to be safe too.

The dealer was being pretty safe at 36" LOL

Paul

[Bill at BOATS 4 SAIL]

Paul S - Your Jib Halyard Block is not installed in the correct location. It should be installed by itself on a smaller 1/4" screw-pin shackle just above/behind the larger 3/8" screw-pin shackle where it is now, which should only have the two upper shrouds and forestay on it.
I use stainless steel wire but I think the plastic cable tie is a good idea.

[Paul S]

Paul S - Your Jib Halyard Block is not installed in the correct location. It should be installed by itself on a smaller 1/4" screw-pin shackle just above/behind the larger 3/8" screw-pin shackle where it is now, which should only have the two upper shrouds and forestay on it.
I use stainless steel wire but I think the plastic cable tie is a good idea.

Wow. This keeps getting better. I assume you mean in pic 6 on my page. Looking at the owners manual on page 5, I see what you mean. It should be on the strap itself, not on the shackle with the other wires. I wonder if the missing shackle is in the box-o-parts that came with my boat.

I just question the longevity of the nylon tie. I know on my old boat they got brittle after a few years. For the short term it should be OK. But I just figured they would assemble the boat according to the way it is in the manual

Thanks for the tip.

Paul S.

[Paul S]

Paul S - Your Jib Halyard Block is not installed in the correct location. It should be installed by itself on a smaller 1/4" screw-pin shackle just above/behind the larger 3/8" screw-pin shackle where it is now, which should only have the two upper shrouds and forestay on it.
I use stainless steel wire but I think the plastic cable tie is a good idea.

Think I found the missing shackle. This must be it in one of the boxes of extra parts, next to white line:



Paul

[Bill at BOATS 4 SAIL]

That looks like the correct shackle just to the left of the coil of white line. It is tubular and the shackle pin should have threads on it. It is not one of the flat stamped shackles used on the halyards and for attaching the jib to the stem head fitting.

[Frank C]

... I just question the longevity of the nylon tie. I know on my old boat they got brittle after a few years. For the short term it should be OK. ...

Paul,
Look at it this way. You really should examine every bit of the rig annually anyway. If you use nylon zipties, you'll have a reason to drop the mast and look everything over periodically.

BTW, you should check every ring-ding each time you go out, no joke. They have a nasty habit of working themselves loose - believe it or not, they really do.

[Paul S]

... I just question the longevity of the nylon tie. I know on my old boat they got brittle after a few years. For the short term it should be OK. ...

Paul,
Look at it this way. You really should examine every bit of the rig annually anyway. If you use nylon zipties, you'll have a reason to drop the mast and look everything over periodically.

BTW, you should check every ring-ding each time you go out, no joke. They have a nasty habit of working themselves loose - believe it or not, they really do.

Maybe I am out of line...but I would expect the dealer, who professionally set it up, to have set it up correctly.

I agree. I have always gone over my old boat, every nut, wire, connector, everything annually. I plan nothing different with this boat.

But, a big but.....I need to have a baseline to go against. If the boat is not set up correctly now...it never will be...because at this point in the game, I have no idea what is right and wrong in the rigging world. Like Bill pointed out with the jib block a couple messages back. it would probably have stayed that way for a decade unless he pointed it out.

Paul

[TonyHouk]

Paul,
The comment you made about the boat always being wrong if it is not right at the beginning has merit. But the thing that comes to my mind with the shackle if that it takes a turning movement to unscrew the pin. The zip tie and safety wire would do the same thing. None of the shackles are safety wired on my boat so I think your's in that aspect is better off then mine. I know the boat is not the way you wanted it and I feel for you. I would look at it this way... Get the dealer to fix the hull and scratches right and then do the rest yourself to make sure it lives up to your standards. I hope you do enjoy the boat when it is right and can tell us all how things are going. Happy sails, Tony

[Paul S]

Paul,
The comment you made about the boat always being wrong if it is not right at the beginning has merit. But the thing that comes to my mind with the shackle if that it takes a turning movement to unscrew the pin. The zip tie and safety wire would do the same thing. None of the shackles are safety wired on my boat so I think your's in that aspect is better off then mine. I know the boat is not the way you wanted it and I feel for you. I would look at it this way... Get the dealer to fix the hull and scratches right and then do the rest yourself to make sure it lives up to your standards. I hope you do enjoy the boat when it is right and can tell us all how things are going. Happy sails, Tony

My problem still is that I do not know what is correct. I just assumed was OK. I do not know what bad stuff could happen with the jib block in the current location or the correct location. Maybe it is OK. But Bill pointed it out. I did not find it on my own.

It is not even an issue of being up to my standard. Having the daggerboard safty line being 36 inches instead of ~54-57" is just flat out wrong. There is nothing subjective about it. Actually I do not remember reading in the manual what the safety line should be. I just deduced it should be longer than 36" by plain logic.

I was not knocking the dealer about the nylon ties..was just questioning if this is acceptable or not.

To have a standard..I need a baseline to judge it against. If it is rigged wrong from the dealer, it will always be wrong because that is my baseline. That jib block would be in the location it is in forever unless Bill (or someone else) pointed it out to me.

Paul

[TonyHouk]

Paul,
Have you made the decision to return the boat to the dealer or not? With what you say is wrong with the boat I would have returned it by now. Unless you were a dealer when you bought a boat I don't think you would know what the base line would be. I have had my X for four years and I could have things that are wrong with it that I don't know. It has been safe for me so I am happy. I would suggest that you go over the boat and pick apart what you think is unsafe and fix it to your standards. Ask the board and see what they have done their boats to bring it up to their standards. Good luck with the outcome. Happy sails, Tony