Disconnecting Engine Linkage

[Terry]

Mike/Aya16 wrote:

I like doing research on the net about things I dont know about, but I run into the same problem all the time. there never seems to be a straight answer and if there seems to be one out there someone comes around to dispute it, so I end up doing what you new guys are going to have to do and try it myself. Then in time you can dismiss the guys that led you astray the first time you asked a question, no matter how convincing they seem at first.

I couldn't agree more. My wife and I spent two summers arm wrestling that helm with the motor connected but once I put a quick pin in and disconnected it, the difference on our boat was like night and day, it was truly a real pleasure to experience the feel of power steering (I'll never own a car without it) it really provided us with a more intimate sailing experience. Now I may be absent minded at times and forget to reconnect immediately after dropping the engine but as Mike pointed out the boat still steers by the rudders and it only takes a few minutes to realize the steering isn't as stiff as it ought to be. And no one can convince me that everyone else is as absent minded as I am. It is not dangerous, it is wonderful.

[jetta01]

Leon,

Check it out at: http://bwyachts.com/web%20catalog%20312 ... eering.htm

[delevi]

Rick,

I saw it before. Looks perfect. I just don't know if it will work on my Etec 50 without mods, but I'll give them a call. I was quite happy sailing disconnected until I screwed up the side of the transom on my boat where the tiller tube slides in and out. (not sure if that's exactly what it's called.) Do you have an issue with this tube chewing up the opening cover cap and side of the transom from steering? I had the dealer look at it and reconnect the engine with a bolt which has a rubber stop to prevent this from happening again. He then proceeded to lecture me about the merits of sailing connected with engine down... thus promting this thread, but I did spend the last 6 months sailing disconnected and agree with all of you who love it. I do too, but must admit that the boat does steer straighter and less prone to weather helm with the engine down and connected when the seas and wind are rough. As far as steering with the rudders under power while disconnected, I have a mixed experience. I have control turning to starboard but not to port. Whe turning to port, that damn tiller tube hits my steering linkage and prevents the wheel & ruders from turning to the left. I can go just a hair or two from the center, but that's it. One more reason to change the linkage system.

[Frank C]

No problem, Matey.
This is the NOrthern hemisphere ... You oughta be turning to starboard anyhow!

[They Theirs]

Disconnecting and Tilting-up the Engine

I believe Aya 16 provided a grand conclusion for Tilting and Disconnecting. I also feel Bill is correct to advise those new and inexperienced MacGregor owners to acquire some skill and ability before doing so. That being said, I believe there could be other issues preventing Mac sailors from defining their sailing experience by disconnecting to improve the control and feel of the helm.
Terry has provided insight and observation along with many of the M boat owners. Someone brought up a good point in there may be enough dissimilarities to conclude the new M hull with its protected internal steering enhances the sailing experience and makes the disconnect quick, safe, and simple.

The First Pictures are the very clean and uncluttered Back Porch of the M with rudders as the primary steering control with its linkage protected inside the hull and a simple SS tubular link from the primary rudder steering to the secondary outboard engine. The effortlessness alteration of removing the engine from the secondary steering link and placing it on the engine center lock pin, removing the heavy flop over helm and providing improved feel and handling.






The Following Photos depict what may give reason for owners avoiding the benefits of cutting drag while suffering the agony of a heavy helm.
The X model Back Porch is littered with linkage just waiting to be stomped upon and the problem prone rudder pivots seem vulnerable enough to attempt designing a deck for protection




























I found this declaration from an honest X model owner and his cure.

Having the heavy motor permanently connected to the steering may be convenient, but this creates some problems while sailing. The engines weight not only adds an additional load on the steering components, but also causes the helm to react as if there is a lot of lee helm, regardless of how the rig is tuned. While heeled over, the engine weight pressures on its pivot, turning the rudders to lee. This can be dangerous (you always want the boat to turn to windward if the wheel is abandoned!!), and takes a lot of the feel away from the helm, making precise steering for wind and water conditions difficult. My solution was to install a simple stainless bracket that allows me to easily "disconnect" the engine from the steering system. It's designed in such a way that when attached to the bracket, the engine will point straight ahead, allowing motoring at slow speeds.

I was not able to find any "X" Model owners Sailing with their engines in the water. They were all tilted up to save the drag.

[aya16]

Bill my sailing experiance is from open ocean, I may have been to quick to
point out the better feel and left out about doing this close to rocks, boats or shore. I always reconnect a mile or two from the break wall. just to clear that up. I never go into a dock or tight place with the engine disconnected. The control you have at slow speed with the engine connected is the best. But I dont agree with the crowd here about keeping the motor connected while sailing in open water. The day and night diff.
when sailing is really an eye opener when you disconnect. I read on these very pages about the danger of running with no ballast, even though Macgregor says its ok, How else can you get 20 mph, but I was very carefull about doing it because of what was written on these pages. Then not to long ago, after owning the boat for almost two years, I tried it guess what? the boat is very stable handles like a large boat should into
normal seas, speed went up and the faster I went the boat was even more stable. At rest I assume the boat would be a little more tippy without the ballast, but with the valve open as you stop it will fill again.
hard tight turns are not what this boat is about so we are talking about
normal use. So when I did this I wondered what all the fuss was about.

Same thing with the disconnect, except I did this long time ago and now find the same kind of talk about disconnecting, I only wanted to clear it up for those that havent tried it. I have no horse in this race so I dont care if people do or dont, but lets give the new guys and gals the straight scoop so they can enjoy their boats to the max.

But if I didnt point out enough to be safe Im sorry

dont disconnect the engine as you run around in the marina

if you sail around rocks or shallow water and you need the power of the engine to get you out of trouble by all means leave it connected. A quick turn with the sails up and useing the engine will get you into a lot of trouble also, so be carefull.

the boat will steer just fine disconnected by the rudders alone, but no way will it turn as well as the engine connected, use a lot of space for this.

Be very carefull when disconnected and the engine not secure, when the boat heels at a scary angle the engine will flop and add to your excitement.

The big one: use common sense when useing this boat as it is very forgiving but its still big and panic added to a blunder will cause alot of damage.

ok anyone want to add to this feel free.

Besides Bill your a dealer and you have to say the things you did...........

[Moe]

The Following Photos depict what may give reason for owners avoiding the benefits of cutting drag while suffering the agony of a heavy helm.
The X model Back Porch is littered with linkage just waiting to be stomped upon and the problem prone rudder pivots seem vulnerable enough to attempt designing a deck for protection

The 26X has plenty of room on the back porch to stand forward of the linkage and disconnect it... unless of course your feet are larger than a Honda EU2000.



In the event you do keep a generator there, you can kneel forward of it and lean over it.

They Theirs also implies that X owners who don't have a problem with engine flop and don't disconnect aren't honest. I'll leave judgement of that to the reader, but to me it's just another attempt to discredit someone who you can't disprove.

[Bill at BOATS 4 SAIL]

What I said has nothing to do with the fact that I am a MacGregor dealer, anymore than my saying you can make delicious sushi drinks by putting a fish in a blender.
I'll repeat what I said above. "Telling a new guy that disconnecting the steering is the way to go is nonsense, and potentially dangerous, in my opinion."
If you want to dis-connect your obm, with your experience and where you sail, I don't have a problem with that.
That is another one of those personal preference issues. I prefer to sail with my obm connected. I'll take safety over convenience every time.
And no, I do not have a "motor disconnect exactly..."
I am working on an adjustable steering linkage, with a turnbuckle body, threaded rod, and ball joints.
I will keep it connected when I sail.

[LOUIS B HOLUB]

THEY/THEIRs...I like the ideas shown in your Pics extending the ballast valve handle. That's been a problem for me, and 1st matie. I like to empty the ballast when motoring in, instead of trying to load the full weight on the trailer...then empty the ballast after straining the vehicle by pulling all that load up a ramp. Its dangerous trying to climb down, reach for that short ballast handle when on the water. Thanks for the Pics...

[Catigale]

It seems like the thread condenses down to two separate things

1. Everyone agrees that disconnecting the motor relieves helm pressure when sailing. Choosing to do so seems to be a personal choice impacted by sailing area and conditions. Certainly you should have the motor connected for slow speed and docking conditions and if you are starting out with your boat.

2 The effect of drag on the sailing speed is reported to be from 0 (that is, not measurable) to up to 1 1/2 kts reported. Some of the reports are based on recollections - no one has produced a GPS track showing speed correlated with motor up or down. I do recall people posting 1/2 knot speed differences 'reputably' on this in an earlier thread. It is reasonable to expect differences between points of sail, and perhaps even between and models....and the color of the hull of course

Bill - is that fish blender available on the blue hulled 2006 ??

[Bill at BOATS 4 SAIL]

Not yet.
I'm working on a quick-diconnect if you are hooked up to shore power.
Threaded rod, tinned wire, ball joints, epoxy, silicone, lexan, bungy cord, remote control, high and low speed switches, LED's, manual override, PETA OSHA and UL approval, childproof lid, Tsunami proof, battery backup, etc.
The biggest obstacle is the Bernouli effect on the fish south of the equator but I'm working on this.

[Catigale]

[aya16]

not sure where it would be dangerous, thousands of sailboats have a kicker that is locked in position and the steering control is by the rudder. The Mac is
way more controllable with the engine connected and rudders down then any sailboat with just a kicker at slow speeds. I think of it as an added bonus not a must do kind of thing. I never recomended that someone disconnect the engine and go do 20mph. or try and dock with the engine disconnected. And with the engine disconnected and trimmed up locked down you just have a normal setup for most sailboats with an outboard for power. In my experiance the Mac handles, under sail, with just the rudders very well it will turn on a dime as long as you have wind.
And new to the boat or not the Mac is as safe as the guy sailing it.
Im not trying to change your mind but I dont see the danger, maybe I missed something ?

[aya16]

Oh and those that dont have engine flop should disconnect the motor on the trailer and see how free the engine turns. the engine should move freely. If there is resistance then the bearings are getting rusty or there is no greese in there or other problems. There is a cure if you get it in time.
break lose the nut and bolt that holds the engine to the mounting bracket
fill with greese through the nipple till it comes out and work the engine back and forth till its free. Re torque the engine bolt and try it. If it still feels sticky the bearings need to be replaced.
We dont have a steering tube like most outboards so the problem would have to be in the bearings.
A twenty-five degree heel will be enough to flop the engine over if its not connected. I know, done that.

[Terry]

I also have to wonder what the danger element entails. If we should fear having the engine locked in place because of the risk of absent mindedness then the same could apply to the daggerboard, we should always keep it either up full time or down full time in case we forget to change it for changing conditions, ditto for the rudders.
Engine flop and drag are facts of life and are no less existant than gravity, it seems to me that it is more to do with ones comfort level and how comfortable they feel having the engine up or down, locked or unlocked. Try every combination and choose what feels best, but don't let anyone scare you.