Keel 180 Lbs

[delevi]

Sounds like you proved that it can be done with a CB. What does it weigh?

[Newell]

I knew the next question would be how much weight I added. I think someone said the original board weighed 30 lbs empty. I never weighed mine. I don't think it weighs more than 70 though. Even so I don't like trailering with tension on the uphaul line. I let the tip rest on the trailer with the uphaul as backup for safety.

[Moe]

I weighed mine multiple times when it was out of the boat and it came up to 29.5 pounds every time.

[DLT]

If the winch is 8:1, it should be fine raising & lowering, but I will only perform this when the boat is not moving i.e. keel not under load.

How are you going to "lower" with the winch? Mine only turns in one direction...

I suppose you could wrap the line around the winch in the other direction, but then you'll have issues with the angle between the winch and the rope clutch won't you? Thinking about it, you may have those issues anyway...

If I were you, I'd carefully think through the details of raising and lowering 180 lbs of dagger board.

I wish you the best of luck and anxiously await your results...

[delevi]

DLT,

I am planning to install the XAS rope clutch through the molding & underlying fiberglass adjacent to the sliding cabin top, approximately 1/2 way between the winch and the cheek block. I think this will keep the angle to a minimum. As for lowering, I was thinking of having two wraps around the winch and cleating to the jib sheat cleat, then release the rope clutch and then while firmly holding the line, uncleat from the sheat cleat and slowly lower. I think the winch will give me enough friction while holding the line to do this slowly, though I'm not certain. Mine only turns one way as well, but I think this is a plus to create the friction/support needed to slowly lower and not sharply drop the DB. As plan B, I would install an 8:1 purchase system on the line and not use the winch. That would also allow me to mount the clutch more aft, right by the cockpit. Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks.

[Frank C]

Will use new lines w/ 3000lb breaking load & Spinlock SPX rope clutch mounted in front of the winch to replace the cleat. If the winch is 8:1, it should be fine raising & lowering, but I will only perform this when the boat is not moving i.e. keel not under load.

Considering that it's surely heavy enough to easily drop into any water turbulence, I actually wouldn't be concerned about lowering that board gradually while underway at less than hull speed.

But I WOULD be sure to have a snubber cable that "stops the drop" at some strategic depth. I hope IDA makes that lifting eye good'n hefty. I'd also be concerned about dropping the board unexpectedly, i.e. if a novice or guest crew releases that clutch unawares ... it surely would be nice to have a snubber cable with some sort of heavy, rubber buffering.

Considering the weight involved, I think I'd be looking to enhance soon enough. For example, a 12v winch could be fairly easy to install inside the cabin at top of the DB trunk. The winches typically have some provision to override in case of a dead battery (crank maybe?). I'm thinking that a chain or toothed belt isn't beyond reality, so lifting and lowering are fully controlled.

[DLT]

If you make it a practice to let the line slide around the winch "using the friction with the winch" to slowly lower the DB, are you at all concerned about the line's service life? Isn't that the sort of abrasion you generally want to avoid?

[delevi]

If you make it a practice to let the line slide around the winch "using the friction with the winch" to slowly lower the DB, are you at all concerned about the line's service life? Isn't that the sort of abrasion you generally want to avoid?

Same wear as on the jib sheats. Lines do need replacement when they wear... part of the deal. I already replaced my rudder lines after 1 year.

I'd also be concerned about dropping the board unexpectedly, i.e. if a novice or guest crew releases that clutch unawares

I think I will keep the original DB line cleat behind the clutch and cleat off as a safety measure. I was actually concerned about someone accidentally popping the clutch and having the board drop hard. The cleat behind the clutch will be a nice backup. I think the biggest decision is whether to strategically mount the clutch at the lowest possible angle somewhere fore of the winch or to forego the winch and mount it in a straight line near the cockpit with an 8:1 or possibly a 12:1 purchase system.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

Even so I don't like trailering with tension on the uphaul line. I let the tip rest on the trailer with the uphaul as backup for safety.

I would have thought it would be better the opposite way, leaving tension on the CB line for good shock absorbtion and using the trailer bunk as backup in case it were to fall, line come loose, etc.

Although maybe this is why my stopper knot was so compressed when I recently replaced my CB line. Probably get much higher loads in "air" versus "water".

Also, when I first got the boat and tried to launch one day with the CB down a bit so it was on the bunk, it got jammed up and it took a lot of effort to get the boat "unstuck" from the trailer. In the end, I had to sink the trailer pretty deep (like maybe off the end of the ramp during a low tide) to get it off so I chocked that one up to inexperience and kept it all the way up from then on when trailering.

[delevi]

Just had an idea which might be the best solution for raising lowering. Install a cheek block behind the rope clutch to divert the line directly to the winch. That way I can position the clutch more aft and not worry about the angle to the winch and no messy purchase system lying on deck. I would still leave enough room to have the original cleat behind the clutch & cheek block to cleat off as a safety measure in case the clutch is accidentally released. Yikes! I'm up past 1:40 am thinking about this stuff and posting it. I think I might be getting obsessive compulsive. This freakin thing better be worth it!

PS. Does anyone know whats the best way to create a very thin yet durable layer of some sort of padding insulation to the lower foot of the DB trunk? I heard there was some spray-on rubberized stuff, but Im not sure if that is suitable or whether it will adhere to gelcoat. I also got a suggestion about keel-guard, but I have never seen the stuff and West Marine doesnt stock it in their stores. Im not sure if it is thin enough and flexible enough to wrap around the trunk interior.

[Richard O'Brien]

PS. Does anyone know whats the best way to create a very thin yet durable layer of some sort of padding insulation to the lower foot of the DB trunk? I heard there was some spray-on rubberized stuff, but Im not sure if that is suitable or whether it will adhere to gelcoat. I also got a suggestion about keel-guard, but I have never seen the stuff and West Marine doesnt stock it in their stores. Im not sure if it is thin enough and flexible enough to wrap around the trunk interior.

I like Bald baby's idea of slicing the end off a truck innertube. If that doesn't work, find an art store that handles "Smooth-on" rubber mold -making supplies. buy the smallest amount of the hardest rubber they have. Brush-on 60 durometer would be my choice. Sand the daggerboard with 50 grit, and clean it with Mek. then brush on a couple of layers. tough stuff. This may be a bit difficult so an option would be to ask a local mold maker to do it.

[Newell]

The question about tension on a weighted DB or CB when trailering I addressed earlier is more relevant to the 180 pounder than mine. In my case the weight is a lever arm working against uphaul line so my 40 lbs of lead is multiple x wt being held up by the tension of the uphaul. I think letting the end of the board rest on the trailer makes for less stress to all parts than the other way around while trailering. I keep the uphaul cleated so it acts as a safety.

How can the 180 lb board be locked in place when in the up position? Perhaps a pin through the trunk inside the cabin would be a possibility. This might be better than the load resting on a clutch/winch 90% of the time.

[Frank C]

P.S. Does anyone know what’s the best way to create a very thin yet durable layer of some sort of padding insulation to the lower foot of the DB trunk? I heard there was some spray-on rubberized stuff, but I’m not sure if that is suitable or whether it will adhere to gelcoat. I also got a suggestion about keel-guard, but I have never seen the stuff and West Marine doesn’t stock it in their stores. I’m not sure if it is thin enough and flexible enough to wrap around the trunk interior.

Leon,
Are you sure you want to coat the bottom of the trunk with anything except AF paint? If there's any need for padding whatsoever (debatable, IMO) it's probably better to coat the top of the board, which would be less exposed to grippy critters.

More importantly - why any padding at all? Fiberglass-on-fiberglass already has some elasticity, especially when loads become heavy enough to worry over it.

[Richard O'Brien]

More importantly - why any padding at all? Fiberglass-on-fiberglass already has some elasticity, especially when loads become heavy enough to worry over it.

Frank, I think Delevi's concerned about a comment about the "Perla Noir". Todd at Blue water yachts said he had some trouble with the heavier board banging around in chop. You're right though about treating the board instead of the trunk, I think? Maybe some Rhino-liner spray like they use on truck beds is what Delevi was thinking about? Any amount of flexibile insulation added will reduce the stress considerably.

[delevi]

cathI think Delevi's concerned about a comment about the "Perla Noir". Todd at Blue water yachts said he had some trouble with the heavier board banging around in chop

That is exactly the concern and the fact that I had two different stock boards get damaged, most likely by banging around in heavy chop.

I agree that coating the trunk may be a bad idea. I didn't even think about marine growth. Thanks for bringing that up Frank. I think I will talk to Joel to see if he can coat the top foot of the board with some of that Rhino-liner spray or something else which would do the job.