Potential Mac Customer, Confused by Drunk Sailors???!!!!???

[ConfusedByDrunkSailors]

Hello,

I have been on board numerous sailboats and enjoyed every minute of it. I am a Pilot. NOT a sailor, but would like to become one in the near future.

I have been looking at both boats and slip availability. Due to the high cost of slips (120K and up) or unsure rental longevity, trailerability makes a lot of sense.

Sooo.............I have been looking on the internet and came across the MAC26M. Makes perfect sense to me. However, after looking on the internet further, I run across chat boards with severe negativity towards the MAC's. I also asked several people that I know with sailboats and they claim that (the Mac26X/M) don't sail for ####! And they power even worse.

My first impression was uh-oh almost made a bad choice. However after considering the personal sources, (drunk most of the time, sailing is MACHO/manly-man, never sailed a MAC) I am taking a grain of salt with the B.S.

The internet negativity seems to be snobbery more than anything. One such jerk showing a picture of the 26 interior and captioning "pass the ketchup please). I fly a turboprop for personal use and I still use ketchup!!

Anyway, can some of you MAC owners please shed some light on this subject.

Thanks,

Confused by DRUNK and I mean DUH-RUNK Sailors.

[Norm]

Well, I'm a drunken sailor too, so I hope not to confuse you further. But I think it's sailboat snobbery. People with traditional sailboats look down on the 26X & M because they are motorsailors. True, they don't point as close to the wind or sail as fast as a fixed keel boat, and they don't motor as well as a cabin cruiser. But for many people, me included, they are an excellent comprimise. Plus Macgregors have always been at the low end of the $cost$ margin. Everything is lighter duty on a Mac compared to say "Hunter" or "Catalina" boats that cost much more. I sure do like the way peoples heads turn though when I open up the throttle and they see a sailboat doing 20mph with a rooster tail behind it. Although the sailboat snobs would never admit to it, there may be a little -envy- involved:)

[kevin carroll]

I think it is even a little bit of jealosy as well, I recently sold my 26X and bought a larger boat - Gemini 105M. However, dollars to dougnuts that the same people that have negative things to say about Mac's usually say it from thier lazy-boy. I think because of the versatility of MacGregor's people sail them more.

There is also the FM factor = don't ask!!! There is one guy who goes on sail sites and promotes Macgregors as something they are not, he is a deranged individual that has done more to harm the image of Macgregor sailors than any shortcomings of the boat. Much of the extreme negative things have come from exchanges with sailors and him.

I don't have to impress anyone ! I was secure enough in my decision making process that these isolated incidents did not bother me. In 4 years of being a MacGregor owner, I never received a negative comment and if I did I would have chuckled and ignored it.

MacGregor's are the most versatile boats for the money on the market. And this comes from someone who just paid over 100K for a larger boat.

Kevin Carroll
Catastrophe
Gemini 105 #670

Previous Owner
Jump the Shark
01 26X

[craiglaforce]

Well, I had several "true" sailors try to talk me out of getting a 26X. One of them bought a used hunter, which he sailed about twice before blowing the engine to pieces.

I would favor a 26X over the M, but that is just my opinion, (I hate daggerboards and what they do when grounded.) If you are always for sure going to be in deep water then no big deal, but if there are shallow spots, the X gets my vote.

I have TLDI 90 hp envy, since my 50 Tohatsu only goes about 14 mph at best.

The macs are plenty strong everywhere except the rudders, but as long as you use a little common sense like not entering a transpac race you should be OK.
They also point pretty well if rigged and balanced properly with a standard jib.

If you get a used X, the price (and resale) should be very attractive.
A new M will depreciate pretty hard in the first year, just like anything else.

It is a great boat if you want what it does. Trailer, motor, sail, easy rigging, lots of room, can handle shallow water, shallow ramps, and you dont need a turbo diesel Ford dually to pull it, but a full sized van, pickup or SUV is recommended.
If you sail into a bunch of biting flys, you will bend over and kiss that big outboard when you clear away from the flys.

[baldbaby2000]

I've also been somewhat puzzled by this attitude too. I think you'll find that it's only a few people that are hard core anti-Macgreggor but they are pretty loud about it. I've sailed on a lot of boats and done a lot of racing. I've raced the Mac a couple times too. I don't really think they sail worse than the water ballasted Hunter 240 or the water ballasted Catalina 250. I think the reason they get bashed is because of the big motor. When some people see them motoring around they think they're not "real sailors." There's probably some truth in that the Macgregor power sailor boats probably attract first time sailors because of the motoring capability. Naturally then there may be a disproportionate number of Mac sailors who act like beginners. Even I sometimes comment and say things like, "why would someone sail with their motor down?"

I've owned a Mac 25 and now a 26M. I haven't had anything break on either one except for the rudder on the 25 when the dock came loose and went into shore. I think you have to be realistic though. The 26M isn't the fastest sailboat but it's OK (the 25 and classic 26 are faster). If you want to trailer, for the price I think it's a great choice.

I saw a J boat (very fast boat) take a hit during a race that a Mac would have withstood but it put a hole in the J. It was above the water line so he put duct tape on it so he could keep racing. Also look at how many J-boats have sunk! A Macgreggor won't sink. But a J-boat will run circles around a Mac.

Again, it depends on what you want to do with the boat. If I had a permanant place to keep my boat where I could be happy all year I might not have a Mac. But It's pretty much either trailer sail--and we do a lot of it--or give it up.

BB

[Catigale]

COnfused

Welcome to the Board. Ill try to address some of your comments and concerns

1 First of all, there are 1000+ members on this board. Anyone who hates their X or M please post a reply below. (I think you will get that point pretty easily)

2 Sailors are somewhat snobs at heart, I can tell you I have heard more BS engineering hanging around sailors than anywhere else. Guys who are English majors suddenly become experts on stress and strain of fiberglass when they take to the water. Then you get something like, "the Mac bolted on deck will fail like a zipper on rough water. "

Hello?? Roger has made 5000,10000 boats and I think he has it worked out pretty good.

3 Im just completing my 4the season with my and I love it. Every year, I sail from Lake Erie, Ontario, the Erie Canal, Finger Lakes, the Hudson, Rhode ISland, Cape Cod and Nantucket - all while working full time with two kids in grade school.
Most of the guys who have a keel boat are stuck in one place for the season, and get to sail in one place.

4 I first started looking into returning to boating 10 years ago, and some kind keelboater put me onto Macgregor. I live on the Hudson River, which has tides and is narrow and gusty. He warned me that sailors would poke fun at the Mac, but "While they are posting nasties on your boat, you will be sailing"

Hope all that helps a bit!! pm or em if you want more...

[Lloyd Franks]

I have had my X for seven months. It is my fifth sail boat. I love it. It is easy to single hand, and launching and retrieving are almost effortless. I am 65 years old...
Go sailing on one. You'll be suprised. And compare the interior with other boats of similar size, and the seperate head...Mac's are great a value!
And when I need to get somewhere fast, my bullet-proof Honda 50 starts easily, and gets me there quietly...What could be bad?

[RandyMoon]

I love my Mac. I keep my boat in a club marina with hundreds of sailboats. Yes there are boats that go faster than me. I would guess that 80% of that is lack of my experience. My boat sails very well. I am probably the biggest limitation.

It bothers me when people bag on other people's boats. Maybe it is a personality disorder. The fact that a bazillion have been sold, they maintain a high resale value and there are people on this board who have owned successive models, that tells me that people might not know what they are talking about when they bag on MacGregor.

I am sure that out there in cyberland, there are probably Beech airplane owners with wings below their airplane that bag on Cessna owners with wings above their airplane. Who gives a rat's rear. They both fly well and thier owners love their airplanes.

[Mark Chamberlain]

I have had my 26x for 6 years now.
Best money I have ever spent for having fun. a Mac is all about fun.
Park it on the Shore, go fishing, take the lady below and have some fun., cook on it, ski behind it. Catch a 175 lb fish on it.
Take it place to place and see things no others can.
Only in a Mac 26 can you do this all.
And have money left to buy a few cool ones.

All the sail boats in the Harbor have grass growing on them from lack of use. Mine has 500 hours of fun on the engine and sails better that the ones in the Harbor, they do not get out because it takes them 4 hours to get out to the good saling grounds.

Buy a used Macx, and have some fun.
put a tld 90 on it for even more fun

Windmusher.com

Honda 50

[Lovekamp]

In 1997, I saw the video for the Mac26X; I wanted one. My wife concluded that it was too expensive, so we bought a used Catalina 22. It took five years for her to realize that my first choice was the proper one.

I have been told by many that it doesn't go fast under sail. I don't see that as a problem because racing isn't my thing. I kind of thought it might become my thing with the Catalina, but it didn't. I just don't care about tweaking that extra half-a-knot.

I have been told it is structurally inferior: thinner fiberglass, lighter rigging. Probably true, but I don't plan to be out in the "perfect strom". I'm gonna be safe at home watching it on TV.

The best thing I ever heard about MacGregors was from a dealer who sold Catalinas and Hunters but not MacGregors. When I explained my interests and the structural concerns others had expressed, he said, "that's all pretty true, but most of the MacGregors made are still out there sailing."

Roger MacGregor says it has positive floatation; others say his video has it sitting on the bottom. I don't know if it will stay afloat, but I want to sail on the Great Lakes, and if my boat hits something, I want the possibility that it might keep something under my kids feet while waiting for Coast Guard help. I knew the Catalina would go to the bottom.

[ConfusedByDrunkSailors]

Looks like what I suspected is true.

Something about those negative posts reminded about this guy that was almost always around when I was a student pilot. He would tell me how to climb a couple of hundred feet above my target cruising altitude, roll in a little down trim and ride the "wave", thereby reducing drag and increasing airspeed. Uh..yeah.....ok...(by that same token you could point the airplane straight down and REALLY increase the airspeed!) If you were aproaching the airport and heard his call sign inbound, most pilots who new him would do a few 360's and wait until he was parked in the hangar! Every time he would cut someone off in the pattern he would complain that most of us would rarely give a position report (non tower airport). He had a hand held radio, in a noisy old tube and rag without a headset (can't even hear yourself scream in a Stinson 108 under full power.) His best stunt was landing downwind towards traffic on a busy day.

RandyMoon,

You are correct, there were a few jerkoffski's who would take the high wing/low wing thing a bit too personally. Most of the stuff was friendly ribbing. But there are always the few who take it a bit too far.

So I guess I am correct in assuming that if I want to sail for fun, be able to power fairly fast, and have a place to rest-eat-go to the bathroom, without spending over a hundred grand or buying a wornout.......then the 26M is a pretty good compromise, particularly for the money? And be able to take it home!

Again, Thanks for the info. Hope you don't mind me asking a few more questions from time to time.

Sincerely,
Not So confused Now

[waternwaves]

without spending over a hundred grand or buying a wornout.......then the 26M is a pretty good compromise, particularly for the money? And be able to take it home!

Of course you mean a used 26X.............................

(its that place for the admiral to go to the bathroom thing..........) (runs from spears from scurrilous M owners who love the M interior Floor plan.)

BTW.......... as a high wing (Cessna and Old AeroCommander owner), I only worried about the low wing guys above me......heheheheh.

But If I ever find that liveaboard barge that will hold all my toys.........and a plane..........I'm there.

Having a Mac ready to go, is a tough proposition to beat.

WEll............ off to the boat.........and tinker for a few minutes on my way home to the island.

[ken smith]

I use to sail on the Niagara River, not many other sailboats on a river with a 9 mile an hr current. They must have been worried how they would get back up river with no wind.
I now live and sail out of fort Myers and I have to go under the Sanibel bridge sometimes I don't want to wait for the bridge to go up so I go out under the bridge and raise the mast on the gulf, after I've gotten to a nice sailing spot with the iron genna.
The ability to have a motor to take you directly up wind either going or returning from a sailing spot is nice to have and it saves lots of time.
If you fish like I do then using the furled gennoa with no main will give you any troling speed with no motor noise. This is truely the best of both sailing and fishing. Many fish brought home with this method.
I've motored out to the keys to dive, the mac is real workhorse, and because of it's size you can bring all that is needed for days if you like.
Then there is the cost of docking, I trailer so I can go to different areas and save lots of dollars by being mobile.
Now for what I think is one of the best advantages of having a mac is that you can make the boat into what suits your sailing style.
These are but a few reasons that I've had a new mac since 1999.
One last thing I had launched one day and tied the boat to the dock and was taking the trailer to the parking spot and a cruise ship had come by and yes the wake it left was about six foot and I had my mac tied to tight to the dock and when the wake came by the maccame back up under the dock and had two holes punched into the side and top. The bow and stern lines both snapped, triple braided, both cleats held, and there was about 6 inches of water in the boat from the wake. The side to this day has spider cracks from the hit zone but has not gotten any worse.

[Paul S]

having owned a 04M for 2 seasons now...here is my perspective.

Have only got positive feedback from people at marinas, etc. At boat shows, get a lot of negative feedback from other sales reps.

The M is the only sailboat that fits my needs.

Can trailer, launch, sail, etc with very litle cost involved. At most maybe a launch/parking fee. How many sailboats can launch in virtually no water...I have launched at dead low tide in certain areas here near Boston. Most/all other sailboats would not be able to do that...never mind being towed by a light duty truck/large car...without a permit...and little drams...single handed.

One weekend we are sailing to Cuttyhunk in Buzzards bay...next we are in boston harbor....then RI....then back to marthas vinyard...how many other boats can you do that with easily. Throw it on a trailer and put it in (or not) when you are going to use it. No bottom paint...no seasonal slip fee...low cost.

That said...our boat (you can look in the archives) was apparently built by drunk monkeys...fit and finish was terrible..blue gelcoat scratched all over..poor gelcoat finish...parts falling off the boat..engine trouble...hardware issues...Apparently this is considered normal, as I was pointed out early on...that we got a boat better than average...

If you are the picky type...it might disappoint..but then again...look at the price..you have to assume some initial disappointment. Overall it is built well...it is just not taken to the quality level I would expect.

Now that said..won't trade it for the world...it does everything you need it to do...but doesn't sail as fast as other boats (but fast enough)...doesn't power as well as virtually any powerboat..steering (on our M) totally stinks...ladder is useless...But it does everything else well enough.

It kinda reminds me of my MGB. As bad as a reputation that MGs had..they were(still are) super cars..handle well..easy to fix...reliable (yes I said reliable)...as long as it is given the respect, care, and feeding it needs...like the Mac...it can be a trouble child..but one that can be tamed if taken care of.

The boat excels despite the quality issue. I have seen several new M's (5-6) and could clearly see significant quality issues with all of them....so ours isn't a isolated case..but nothing that will prevent it from sailing ...well there was the time a nut fell off the spreader...lol... Go over it with a fine tooth comb...then do it again...and again.. fix/have fixed anything mechanical that is needed...make fun/mods later.

oh yea..the trailer quality is pretty bad...but it does work...well..trailers well..recovers the boat well, except the bow bunks keep breaking...damaging the gelcoat...getting good at gelcoat repair Tires/wheels are good..brakes are super (disc on most Ms). It should be half rusted upon delivery (ours was). After your first launch..it will be much worse..But the price is right...and works very well..like the boat..despite the quality.

There is nothing else, price wise, flexibility wise, performance wise, power wise that fits the bill...not a one...it owns this niche market...there are a few other similar boats..but cost a lot more $, need permits to tow in certain areas...need a super duty truck to pull/launch..etc.

This is not a negative post..just my perspective..dispite what has happened to the boat in the past.

Paul