Livability old boat VS new

[blue_shiba]

I have been looking at 30' old and new boats. Are any of these boats capable of being a permanent residence IF one is a minimalist? Considering the cost of condo's, apartments, and/or a mortgage... Shall thy dock be a place I call home?

Oh and thanks for at least some of you reading my intro to this forum.
Ms. Blue

[blue_shiba]

Hello and thank you for the response.
When I proclaim "minimalist" I mean I have become small with posessions and massive with adventure. Even routine eating is to a miniscule varience. I do see your point of trespassers and thefts. With my situation although I am very well capable of earning dock money and expenses. The idea of a constant move does bring questions. Weather is another unknown, although I do seek to do the Victoria BC scene at least on a temporary basis. The west coast and I mesh quite well.

anyways, thanks for more to think about.
Ms. Blue

[RandyMoon]

A 30' will have a beam width of 11 or 12 feet, so you would have some good elbow room in a 30+ boat. If living in it, I would be looking for ample water and waste storage and ease in pumping the later out of the boat.

I was in British Columbia last year and saw lots of people living on their boats.

If you are looking for used 30's, the Catalina 30 is a plentiful classic.

[blue_shiba]

Makes sense yet, the cost per footage for mooring will be more. Also the towability, is that more difficult to do--such as license, fees and so on?
Do you recommend fiberglass hulls or wood ones or even steel ones? I am trying to view the boat as a sleeping quarter mainly. The city/cities/towns more for the daytime entertainment and so on. I have lived in less than 300 sq. ft. for over 2 years now. SO space and cooking options are NOT really high on my list. Some fresh fruit, nuts or a yogurt willl do me fine. Rather primitive eh?

I had been looking at some Catalinas/ 1972-1990.......... seems the cost is significantly more on the newer models when comparing to a Brand new Mac. Let me know what you think.

Ms. Blue

[Terry]

It rains here a lot Ms Blue,
I'm home grown here in the greater Vancouver area and I know how wet it can be, best wear your neoprene clothes full time.
Yes we do get plenty of good sailing weather and there are what are called squatters anchored out in False Creek year around. There are plans in the making to outlaw it though.
If you browse the web and check out the specs for various sailboats you'll find that the 11-12 foot beam starts at the 36 foot lenght. the 26-30 foot boats are 8-10 foot beams. Personally I would want a bluewater boat for any long term living and that would allow me to sail fiurther and take my home with me. A 36 footer would be the minimum for me.
If you have not been out to the west coast before it offers some of the finest sailing areas in the world. From Peuget Sound to the Queen Charlottes, it would take years to see it all. Unfortunately it is governed by seasons so fair weather sailors are relegated to sailing from April to September. Boating is popular out here and there are tens of thousands of them in the straits.
Some marinas have live aboard moorage, I know of a few that do it in Point Roberts Marina (US) where I moore for 4-6 months of the year. They have bathrooms, showers and laundry facilities on both sides of the marina but Canadians can only stay for six months. You'd need a car though, to get to the city as it is a bit removed.
There are plent of marinas in the Vancoiuver harbour with very easy access to public transportation and shopping but you'd be looking at about $250.00 CDN per month for moorage on 30 feet and it is a fair distance out to the Georgia Strait and Gulf Isands or San Juans which is why I choose Point Roberts. Look at some charts and you will instantly see the geographic advantage Point Roberts has. Sailing to Victoria is a peice of cake from there.
The islands have many locations for free anchoring out in the nicer weather but be forewarned we get small craft warnings here on a regular basis and the Georgia Strait can be very threatening and dangerous when strong winds come up, Gale force is not uncommon.
So yes, a minimalist can live on a 30 foot boat here but it would not be the most pleasant experience in my opinion. In my younger years I was an avid outdoorsman and slept in tents in the mountain wilderness but I have softened up over the years and now prefer the comforts of a house.

Towing is no big deal here, just a good tow vehicle and an inexpensive trailer plate is all you need. There are more places to launch than you could imagine, like I said boating is popular out here.

Oh yea, you say you're massive with adventure, well the adventure available out here is more massive than you are with it. Something to look forward to.

[BBraun]

I strongly disagree with the notion that one cannot live on a small boat -- compared to camping and especially long distance backpacking the Mac 26X and M are palatial. Personally, I can go months on a 20 footer as long as it has a basic cabin.

OTOH, I was on a 48 footer for a week in Puget Sound once and after getting over the shock of how HUGE it was compared to all the "small" boats I had sailed on, I was awed at how small it really was. A boat is not a house and even the largest boats are very, very small when compared to land living.

[Moe]

First, I have a 7.3L diesel pickup, and even though it could just pull the 12,000-14,000 lb personlized and equipped weight on the trailer, I wouldn't try to tow a 30' keel boat with it because of how high it sits on the trailer. I'd definitely want a dually for the stability. Most folks have them commercially hauled rather than buy an maintain a big truck.

I suppose if I were single, I could get by in a sailboat, even in a Mac, on the condition that I could keep it on the Great Lakes during the overbearing summer heat and hurricane season in Florida, but get it back down to Florida before the gales of November and freezing weather up North.

That's called "snowbirding" in the RV world. Wintering in an RV is no fun and not cheap to heat with the 1.5" of insulation, compared to a house. It uses a huge amount of propane not only because of the insulation but because the air volume is so low and you have to keep replacing it frequently to get rid of condensation from breathing, cooking, showering, etc. You have to keep a window and a vent slightly open, and there's no where to escape from the draft. Summer doesn't present that problem because the air-conditioner removes the humidity, but it does use a lot of electricity with the poor insulation and typically single-pane windows. OTOH, an RV can be hooked up directly to a sewer, and in the case of ours, the large black water, grey water, and fresh water tanks are all heated to keep them from freezing. Some, but far from all, RV parks have heated water hookups, and even at that you have to use heat tape on the water hose.

Despite its problems, an RV is orders of magnitude better than a boat in the winter. The boat may have only have half the internal volume of air, no insulation, and be sitting in the much higher thermal mass of 32 degree water. And that's assuming you have bubblers to keep it from freezing around the boat. Condensation is a serious problem in a boat in the winter. Due to its shape, the boat has much less usable floorspace, much less volume for storage. You have to haul water in and waste out.

As with an RV, all this wouldn't be an issue if you could move with the seasons. But the lack of storage might.

We've spent a few 4-5 day trips out on our 26X, and could probably continue indefinitely with adequate marina support. But we wouldn't want to. We also tent camp a lot besides RVing, and the Mac is much closer to tent camping than it is RVing. I wouldn't call the Mac "palatial" compared to a decent sized tent but it is better. Given the choice between full-time in the Mac and a 26' travel trailer, we'd definitely take the latter. But honestly, I think our 35' is about our minimum.

How well you could do as a live-aboard on a small boat depends entirely on you.

[Terry]

I have not yet read anything here that suggests one cannot live on a small boat. Given that inmates of penal institutions survive in a tiny cell, anything would be liveable, why even the homeless live under cardboard boxes. Humans do adapt to their environments. Compared to land living some waterliving is superior. For example, we have a floating home community only a few kilometers from where I live along the shores of the river just before it empties to the ocean. These are full blown houses floating on a barge base, you can park your Mac right at the front door like you do a car on land. There are large motor boats in the 50' range that people live on in the marina that have three levels of living space, likely more than my land house, I would gladly trade them places. Compared to land living these are not so very very small. On the other hand, sailboats by their very design and shape have more restricted living space and require more lenght to equal their motor yacht counterparts. That said I would prefer a longer one so that I could sail my home around the world. I have lived aboard my Mac for several days at a time while on trips and I found it quite constraining, I could not wait to arrive at the next marina to give my legs a good stretch. To live aboard a small sailboat year around one would have to give up many of the creature comforts of a large motor boat or land house. I have to wonder how those squatters keep their boats warm in the winter and where they get electricity from. I suppose they spend a great deal of their time ashore and only go to their boats to sleep. I am not a minimalist at my age, when I was young that was another story I was more resilient then, it was no big deal to backpack above the treeline and sleep in a tent, but then that was for shorter durations. Long term living on a small boat just does not appeal to me in my older years. In fact, next season I intend to become a marina rat, as I am not too crazy about anchoring out for days without a shower or restaurant. Still anyone can live as they choose and if a small boat is ones choice, so be it, humans are adaptable.

[James V]

When I was looking at living aboard and working at the same time. There was few marinias in Florida and the cost was more than renting an apartment and keeping the boat at a dock. If your are talking about cruising for months and being on the hook most of the time, it will cost a lot less. The view will change and so will the people and places. People are doing it, more than 80% stop within the first year, no matter the size. There is a small Mag for liveaboards. Good luck.

[craiglaforce]

You would certainly have to love living in a primative way and of course on the water. But it has some appeal. If it was me, I would try to get something in the 35-45 foot range, that could have a davit on the back for a dingy, and also an almost full traditional keel. Certainly nothing with centerboards, or even a fixed fin keel. You want stability at anchor or you will have to live in a marina and pay lots more to sustain the adventure.
Also I would want a little wood stove and room for a cheap generator and maybe an A/C depending on where you are. Hot windless nights and mosquitoes are terrible. But if you anchor out, maybe its OK with no AC.

And sun shades, ventilation, and all the storage and tankage issues obviously.

And can you insulate the hull?

[Eric O]

It just depends on how badly you want to live on the boat. There was a fellow in the San Juans living aboard a 15' West Wight Potter, and I seem to remember there being a book about a woman who moved herself and at least two children onto a less than 30 foot boat for several years. So just about anything is possible if you want it bad enough.

[mark,97x]

look at the- bombay clipper-they are out of production but they have the interior space of a small condo,and can bought at a reasonable price ,,,good luck

[Mark Prouty]

Bombay Clipper - Interesting boat.

[blue_shiba]

Hey thanks for all the insightful input on the subject. I guess I see boat living as compared to staying the night at a motel. Once daylight I check out and head for some stuff to do in the town. Mainly the boat would be sleeping quarters and transportation to my next new destination. Anyways, you all have given me much to think about and much to explore further.
Thanks again. BTW love reading the other posts/topics... very interesting indeed.

Ms. Blue