genoa sheets bowline clew or cow-hitch

[ALX357]

There is a thread about this somewhere, - it belongs in this heading, but my question is new..... if i wanted to tie the bowline knots to the Genoa clew instead of using the cow-hitch which hangs up on the shrouds more, would it be practical to just loop the sheets ?
..... I mean, instead of cutting the long sheet line, just tie one end with the bowline to the clew, and then lead it around to the Genoa blocks, thru the cam-cleats i have near the helm, across to the other side, and out around back to the Genoa clew on the other side. Would that be managable, or is there a safety concern ? 'Would not allow the "sheets-to-the-wind" thing to happen ... and would be kind of odd at first, the lack of sheet stopper knots etc. but it might be easier to keep organized..
ANYONE ELSE do this ?

[Frank C]

Alex, don't know why you feel the bowline will snag less than the cow hitch, but I suppose I'd try your tactic once before cutting the line. I can't imagine why those knots would work better, and in my case, I'm sure it would be too short to safely cross the cockpit. I'd be concerned it might tie me up and strangle me in a freak wind!

Another option is to tie a bowline-on-the-bight - but same caveat as above, I don't see how it would improve things. In fact, if you choose to cut the sheet in half, you might try using a buntline hitch instead of bowline. It's the smallest possible knot (used for halyards).

[ALX357]

somewhere in the last few months a thread on here contained the mention that a bowline tied - turned the right-way out would slide over the shrouds smoothly, whereas the cow-hitch usually snags. The bowline knots would therefore have to be tied symmetrically, face in or face out, not sure which way, but mirrored. I have noticed the cow-hitch does often snag when under tension. It did occur to me that the single Genoa sheet might loop around, grab something and yank it, but in practice, I wonder if it would work out that way.... maybe depends on the amount of excess length .... ?

[Frank C]

Alex, Try this thread titled foresail sheets. (I remembered the discussion ... you'll notice that i found it by searching on bowline+clew.)


P.S. Still think that this buntline hitch would be even better. It just may be the most compact of knots, such that I think they both might actually "hide" in the clew. With caveat that it jams over time - not such a problem, since I'd just cut it if necessary.

[Catigale]

Most boats Ive seen bowline the genny sheets on

I dont even tie them Frank, I just push a loop through the Genny clew and then pull the sheets through the loop.

I have never had them slip, but maybe in your 20-25 kts on the Bay this would be a problem

[Chip Hindes]

Catigtale, I believe that's what the others are calling a cow hitch. Never heard of it, but Googling cow hitch also reveals it's called lark's head. Interestingly, I've always known that same knot as a girth hitch, and in fact Googling girth hitch reveals exactly the same knot. Even though it's the same, I was unable to fnd a reference that says cow hitch, also known as girth hitch, or vice versa.

A buntline hitch might be smaller than a bowline, but I'm not sure what is the point since I don't see any advantage of two separate sheets with two knots, be they buntline or bowline, versus a single length with a girth hitch forming two sheets. I don't see how bowlines or buntlines, whether mirrored or not, would not snag on both sides, whereas normally the girth hitch only snags on one side.

It's hard enough keeping a free running foersail sheet from forming a loop and snagging something, hopefully not a body part, but at least the free ends can be let fly if something goes wrong. Having a single large continuous loop, which has the possibility of being loaded from both ends snaking through the cockpit ready to jump up and bite you seems to me at the very least an unnecessary inconvenience. I believe it's also a recipe for injury if not disaster, and I don't think it's even worth trying.

[Dan B]

The PO of my boat used a single line, cow-hitched at the clew. When I replaced the sheets I went with two lines, with bowlines, to see if they would snag less. They seem to work just slight better, presuming you tie them with the "flat" side toward the shrouds.

[Frank C]

I dont even tie them Frank, I just push a loop through the Genny clew and then pull the sheets through the loop.

I have never had them slip, but maybe in your 20-25 kts on the Bay this would be a problem

Same here, Stephen. I use the official Lark's-head-cow/girl hitch

The problem is that ALX has his girth hitch hanging up on shroud or lifeline. I just suggested buntline as a more compact knot than his plan to try a bowline, also much easier to cinch-up into the clew. Maybe wind speed has the advantage of pulling my clew across any snags. I found the buntline topic on Brion Toss website, thought I'd pass it along. It's an obscure, little-used knot, but a very good one. It's very compact & rarely comes undone.

Lots of jib sheets are tied w/ bowline & it works well for Don - more power!

[Catigale]

Enlightenment has burst upon me. Thanks FRank and Chip.

I have a lot less trouble with snags when tacking if the Admiral waits for the genny to backwind before she pops the sheet - the wind then takes the genny over and she sucks in the sheet from the lee side clear of the boat. Nothing to snag out there except other boats

[Tom Spohn]

When we got our '98 X the PO had installed oversized genny sheets that were a different color on each side as his admiral responded quicker to "pull in the red rope" than to "trim the port sheet". Only problem was the bowline knots hung up every other time--somewhat irritating. Since my admiral has no problem with port and starboard, or right and left we changed to one long oversized line with a girth hitch on the clew of the genny. This reduced the problem of the knots catching to negligible. The oversized line made handling the line, especially without gloves much easier on the hands.

[ALX357]

The essential point made about the use of a bowline is that it has a distinctly different profile when facing one way vs. the other. One side is almost flush, while the other side presents a large obstruction. The flush side is apparently easier to pull across the shrouds than the cow-hitch, while naturally the larger other side catches that much more.