M mast raising system on a X dimensions

[TonyHouk]

Hey Y’all,
I haven’t been on here in a while. I Finally got my boat back in the water after fourteen years. I bought the M mast raising system from Blue Water Yachts. I have a question on the physics involved on where the attachment point for the mast is located. I went against the directions and mounted the bail at the spreaders. It places the lifting spot about half way up the mast instead of less than a quarter of the ways up the mast if I had followed the directions. To those who have gotten this far what is the advantage, physics-ally, by mounting the bail so low on the mast? I would think mounting it so low would put a tremendous amount of torque at that spot. On the block and tackle that originally came with the X the block was at the spreaders also. Is that where the X came from the factory if you go the mast raising system? Thanks, Tony

[WinSome]

Attaching it at the quarter mast point means you are able to remove the mrs system. Any further up ( re :Spreaders) means unable to remove. Originally I too was concerned about the lift weight and torque. It’s a non issue in reality.
An earlier Mac S of ours had a bail thru the mast as attachment
I’ve raised an X and M mast by double wrapping and snugging the Mrs line around the mast about 6 ‘ up and winch it up. Works perfect.
( the angle between mast and gin pole = mast is much lighter than you suspect. Out wrapped line has never slipped )

[TonyHouk]

I tied a bowline on the line to the bail. I have a short loop on the cleat on the mast that the snap shackle connects to when I take off the MRS. There is another bowline loop on the winch line that the shackle from the mast attaches to when I need to raise the mast. The line that comes from the MRS to the bow has another snap shackle. Having the two shackles where they are at allows me to remove the MRS and have a clean deck. Tony

[OverEasy]

Hi All!

I’m in now way shape or form an expert on raising a mast on a Mac26X or Mac26M.
I have tried doing it a couple of times on dry land though just for chuckles and grins.
I’ve done it solo with and without the MRS.

It is possible to successfully raise the mast on our Mac26X without the MRS.
It was sorta like perversely watching a one armed paper hanger!
Interesting, awkward a bit difficult but I got it up and back down.
Kind of a ‘brute force’ approach of just walking the mast up from horizontal to vertical and vice-versa.
Tensioning the fore-stay was the hardest part and took some finagling.
Not something I’d attempt with my limitations again on dry land or water unless needs must….

It was a lot easier with the MRS!
Much more stable and manageable to accomplish solo.
(I have to old block and tackle system and don’t have that nice fancy bi-directional winch type.)

The recommended placement of the jib pole along the mast is typical practice when raising poles or masts using the jib pole method.
The reason to place the jib pole lower towards the base is to actually minimize the stress on the mast.
To explain adequately this would involve vector diagrams to show compression, bending and tension forces involved at multiple points in the process which would bore most folks to sleep.
Suffice to say that there is a reason to place the jib pole at the 1/3 to 1/4 up the pole from the base and not higher.
Depending on the pole or mast material there can be advantages to placing the jib pole as low as the actual base of the pole or mast to be lifted.

When raising the pole, such as a power pole or pole barn, one wants some space at the base so the pole can slide down into its socket hole which is generally several feet deep. So one needs the clearance up from the base.

If one were to simply tie a line to the top f a mast and attempt to simply try to pull it along the length of the mast or pole all one would be doing is compressing the mast or pole.
What one needs is an upward force to lift the end. That’s what the temporary jib pole does for you. It provides a partial upward vector force to your horizontal pull. This “lifts” the end of the mast or pole.

To minimize bending of the pole one typically ties the lifting line about 1/4 to 1/3 down from the top end of the mast or pole.
Placing the jib pole at a corresponding 1/4 to 1/3 up from the base is generally sufficient to provide the sufficient angle to get the lift vector.
> What about the length or height of the jib pole? Yes that’s important!!! Generally the jib pole should be at least 1/4 to 1/3 the length of the pole or mast to be raised. Typically the lifting line is ‘rested’ on the upward end of the jib pole which has the other end secured to the mast or pole to be lifted.

> Where should the person(s) stand? Generally one should be at least 1/2 the pole length or more ( more is much better ).

As the pole comes up the vectors constantly change and along the way the lift line lifts free from the end of the jib pole.

Now there is also a critical functional safety aspect as there needs to be stay lines on either side of the pole or mast opposite the lifting line to stabilize the mast or pole as it is raised to prevent it from swinging to either side or toppling over in the direction of the lift line pull.

As kids we used this to raise a full on power pole which was about 40 ft tall with just three of us.
We cheated and used a multisheave block and tackle approach and an anchor point for the lift line.
We also used anchor point and block and tackle for the side stays as well so everything was always under control.
This way three kids who were lucky to have a combined weight of maybe 300 pounds could easily lift and set a 40 ft utility pole that weighed probably close to 800+ pounds. (To be honest digging the six foot deep ground socket hole was the much bigger and arduous task!!! That about killed us!!! )

Best Regards,
Over Easy

[dlandersson]

Just an observation. I have a 97X. There's no way I could walk it upright solo. My mast must be heavier than others.

It takes the MRS and at least two people to raise my mast - and two people to safely lower it.

Hi All!

I’m in now way shape or form an expert on raising a mast on a Mac26X or Mac26M.
I have tried doing it a couple of times on dry land though just for chuckles and grins.
I’ve done it solo with and without the MRS.

It is possible to successfully raise the mast on our Mac26X without the MRS.
It was sorta like perversely watching a one armed paper hanger!
Interesting, awkward a bit difficult but I got it up and back down.
Kind of a ‘brute force’ approach of just walking the mast up from horizontal to vertical and vice-versa.
Tensioning the fore-stay was the hardest part and took some finagling.
Not something I’d attempt with my limitations again on dry land or water unless needs must….

[March]

That's right. With the roller furler on, raising the mast single-handedly is indeed a bear.

[OverEasy]

Hi All!

Not sure it’s impossible..I dunno…I just went and did it
Guess it like bumble bees not being able to fly but do it anyway
But like I said before I felt like a one armed paper hanger doing it.

As far as roller Furler goes it was on but the sail was not.

I agree, Our non-winch MRS add it a lot easier.

As I’ve mentioned we prefer to go out in ‘cruiser mode’ as it suits where we are and what we like to do which is explore our rivers creeks and estuaries. Having a mast up is a bit of a detriment to that.

(Note: In the future when time and resources allow I’d like to make a pintle post system for the mast so that when down it will be horizontal and give me cockpit headroom of at least 6’6”. I’d like it to also enable us to road and water travel with the mast horizontal but with the base moved forward to minimize any over hang off past the stern. I have room fwd of the bow rail when on the trailer as well as when we are in our slip. I’d like the option of not having the mast jut out as far as it does per the original design when in a slip. The marinas don’t look kindly on having things jut out into the slipways as it’s a hazard to others. Nor do I want to be required to raise the mast when in our slip. Just our personal preferences.)

Best Regards,
Over Easy

[dlandersson]

Thank you. I never thought of that. I do have a roller furler.

That's right. With the roller furler on, raising the mast single-handedly is indeed a bear.

[leefrankpierce]

My X had the origional X MRS. After seeing an M MRS, I used the same X gen-pole, mounted a wench to it, added a rope going from the top of the gen-pole to the same spot on the deck that the X MRS system used, then using the same multi-pully X pully system, attached it to the top of the gen-pole.
Then added a bail to the same bolt the baby-stays go to.
Basically replicating the M MRS.
Had to make several adjustments to the rope going to the front of the boat to get the proper spacing between the gen-pole and the mast when 100% up, however, once set, works great.
Have done this for years, often with the full mainsail/boom attached. Yes it looks like it would put stress on the mast right at the bail, but the mast is a whole lot tougher than you might think.
Not sure if I have a pict, will go look.

[visaggio]

Question for the 26x MRS using the winch. Running the line from the block and tackle across the deck to the winch leaves rope marks on the top of my sliding hatch. Am I supposed to run the line from the tackle through the fairleads to the winch? I wasn't sure the fairleads were strong enough for raising the mast. I've searched through a couple of videos, but haven't seen where they run the line aft to the winch.

[dlandersson]

Is that a record?

I Finally got my boat back in the water after fourteen years.

[TonyHouk]

Visaggio,
On my X before I placed the winch on the pole, the lines would leave the blocks at the bow and then go aft I think through a block back to a clutch setup next to the winch. I could take a picture of it for you possibly Wednesday if we go sailing then. I hope that helps. Tony

[visaggio]

I do not have a block between the front where the block and tackle ends and the winch at the cockpit. Am I missing a part of the MRS then?

[kmclemore]

Hey Y’all,
I haven’t been on here in a while. I Finally got my boat back in the water after fourteen years.

Hi, Tony! Long time, no hear! (I still have a spool of wire to get back to you... let me know in a PM where to mail it?) Good to see you back, and I'm glad you're enjoying your boat again.

I have a question on the physics involved on where the attachment point for the mast is located. I went against the directions and mounted the bail at the spreaders. It places the lifting spot about half way up the mast instead of less than a quarter of the ways up the mast if I had followed the directions. To those who have gotten this far what is the advantage, physics-ally, by mounting the bail so low on the mast? I would think mounting it so low would put a tremendous amount of torque at that spot. On the block and tackle that originally came with the X the block was at the spreaders also. Is that where the X came from the factory if you go the mast raising system? Thanks, Tony

I have the M mast raising system, but the boat is up in NY and I'm still in PA right now. I'll try and take photos when I get up there in a few days... maybe that will help?

Cheers,
Kevin

[HERNDON]

Kevin,
Please post pics to this site. I have the original MRS for the 26X along with a spare winch and think I would like to change from the original.
Thanks...Rob