Anchor setup

[green]

I purchased new 1/4” chain, double braid nylon anchor line, and two 3/8” shackles for a new bow anchor setup. The shackle pin does not fit through the chain. I expected the chain opening to be wider. It’s just shy of 3/8”.

Would you recommend going down to a 1/4” shackle, or is there another solution? 3/8” shackle has max/break of 2200/8800 vs 1100/4400 for 1/4”.

[rsvpasap]

[OverEasy]

Hi Green!

There is no single best answer to your issue…just reasonable options…

Typically a limiting factor with chains ans shackles it the minimum diameter of either the chain link or the shackle pin or collar.
So if a 3/8 diameter shackle pin doesn’t fit the chain one wants to ask the question as to the actual chain link material diameter…

The next aspect is if the chain material is actually 3/8” diameter and the shackle pin is 3/8” diameter then it should fit… right?
Well sometimes when the chain links are made there is a ‘weld’ which can cause a bump that reduces the open space restricting the shackle pin insertion. There are a couple options in that case ….
—> One is to file down the link bump (generally ok for SST but not desired for galvanized).
—> A second is to reduce the shackle pin to fit (generally ok for SST but not desired for galvanized).
—> A third is to expand the link diameter with a taper drift enough to fit the shackle pin. (This is generally my preferred option if that is possible as it minimized the removal of any galvanizing and SST doesn’t care… the only caveat is you don’t do this option with forged ling chain as it will result in potential cracking of the link).
—> A fourth is to use an appropriately sized splice link that fits both you chain and your shackle pin .. This is a sorta spiral open link that one threads in to the last chain link and squashes together or has a riveting feature to close. (Personally I’ve used this approach over the years but I “derate” the assembled system by 25% to 50% as under extreme load conditions I have seen splice links unwind themselves. )

—> A fifth option is to look at your actual requirements vs. perceived needs.
How much anchor holding capability do you really need?
Windward side of a rocky shored coast during Hurricane Gale Force 8 levels or just a calmish on lake lunch?
A slow moving creek or last ditch before getting to the edge of Victoria Falls in Monsoon season?

With 2200/8800 lbs for 3/8” vs 1100/4400 lbs for 1/4” a valid argument can be made for making the choice to goes with what fits as one could reasonably see that the 1/4” shackle could be sufficiently strong enough for one’s needs short of anchoring in excessive weather, wind or current conditions. If you are planning on contending with extremes then you’re gonna need to get a different chain that has a sufficiently large enough opening to fit the 3/8” shackle pin.

Our personal system is limited by our deck cleats which I personally figure is ballpark limited to about 1000-to-1500 lbs max or there about.
This is just an estimated experience based best guesstimate of the 20+ year old assembly of two 3/16 diameter threaded bolts into 1/4 inch-ish fiberglass backed by washers and nuts are what holds a fwd deck cleat in place and that no matter how you do it in reality only one cleat at a time is gonna be holding or taking up the load.
So, for us anyways, the limiting factor being the deck cleat determines what the capability of the rest of the anchoring system.
Going much beyond that limitation isn’t gonna buy us anything beneficial.

Our baseline is that if we are ever forced into something exceeding that capability we will admit that we screwed up on our problem avoidance measures (not getting into the situation in the first place) and are going to deploy our secondary anchor system to share the load to backstop the primary one.

Personally we’re fully committed to avoiding problems and conditions if and wherever possible.
Having weather apps on our phones and checking the conditions prior to and while out let’s us know what to anticipate and where we need to go to stay out of trouble.
Having a GPS chart plotter with up to date charts backed up by phone app maps/charts and a spare (ancient) GPS handheld lets us know where we are and where we can head to.
Having a good reliable engine on our Mac26X should allow us to get to where we need to be… but this is our primary propulsion as we’ve been using our boat as a cruiser. Our mitigation for this is diligent maintenance and situational awareness to avoid any situations where the loss of power can become a critical problem and not merely an inconvenience. (While we do have a TowBoat membership they still take time and logistics to get there.)

If extreme weather is predicted for our area we take the appropriate precautions such as doubling our fenders, slip dock lines and springers or just go ahead and haul out with our trailer.

Hope this helps with your decision making on which direction you choose to go with in resolving you anchor setup.

Best Regards
Over Easy

[Russ]

First, that's a nice shiny anchor.

I've been known to pry links open to make stuff fit. I'm not sure how that affects strength.

As mentioned above, the deck hardware is probably weaker than that 1/4 shackle.

[green]

Another example of why this forum is so valuable. Thanks to all three of you.

I was wondering about expanding the link to make the 3/8" fit, but was unsure if this is wise (and had not yet Googled enough to learn that the tool I need is a taper drift). Though I'm not sure if my chain is forged link.

OverEasy, your note about holding needs is very helpful. It seems like going down to a 1/4" shackle is a reasonable solution. I won't be facing the extremes, and if I do, a larger shackle won't save me

[Be Free]

A 3/8" shackle is supposed to fit a 1/4" chain. If you don't see anything obvious that is keeping you from putting the shackle through then using a drift to open it up a little should not hurt anything.

[rsvpasap]

I originally had shackles, but quickly switched to swivels. If you're going to use shackles, suggest you seize them. One of the reasons I use swivels rather than shackles is that swivels fit through the bow roller. This may not seem like much if you're only raising your anchor a few times, but if you're doing it on a regular basis, perhaps hundreds of times over the years, and in all types of weather, it makes a big difference to be able to complete the retrieval of the rode, securing of the anchor and stowing of the rode while seated on the bow (rather than standing). It's no fun to wrangle the rode while standing on a bouncy bow.

[Be Free]

I originally had shackles, but quickly switched to swivels. If you're going to use shackles, suggest you seize them. One of the reasons I use swivels rather than shackles is that swivels fit through the bow roller. This may not seem like much if you're only raising your anchor a few times, but if you're doing it on a regular basis, perhaps hundreds of times over the years, and in all types of weather, it makes a big difference to be able to complete the retrieval of the rode, securing of the anchor and stowing of the rode while seated on the bow (rather than standing). It's no fun to wrangle the rode while standing on a bouncy bow.

Absolutely! Regardless of where the shackles are located, those shackle bolts will back out eventually if you don't seize them.
In increasing order of holding power:

• Thread locking compound (Loctite and its kin)

• Cable ties

• Monel wire

And my personal favorite on anchors

• Monel and deforming the end of the bolt with a punch

I consider anchor shackles to be a one-time use item. Mine only come off with a grinder or a hacksaw.

[Dougiestyle]

Good advice Bill, Thx will do!!!

[Russ]

I've heard it said that if it fits in the Mac anchor locker, it's too small.

I have a 22lb claw anchor that stays on the bow roller nicely. The claw anchor has worked nicely. It may be overkill, but I prefer too much rather than wish I had it.

I do have a smaller fluke anchor as a backup in the anchor locker.

[Be Free]

Anchors in all of their forms, all the variations of chain and rope rode, snubbers, and kellets are very specific to the bottom conditions, scope, wind and sea conditions, as well as the technique used to set it. Even in the case of virtually identical boats (like ours), if there were ever a time where the phrase, "Your mileage may vary" would apply it is in regards to anchoring.

I don't spend time in crowded anchorages and I always have the option of choosing my spot and using as much rode as I like. The bottom where I sail is usually either mud or sand and never more than 10' below me. Tidal ranges are not extreme and I don't have to deal with reversing currents very often. Because I know all of that, I use an 8' Danforth style anchor with 6' of chain and 125' of nylon 3-strand. It's held in anything I've been willing to spend the night in and I've spent some very lively nights at anchor.

Because I've tested it, I know that it will hold in grass if it can penetrate. I don't anchor in grass because it damages the grass and because sometimes it only seems to be set. I also know from my testing that it is going to either be undependable or almost impossible to dislodge in rock, coral, or oysters so I don't anchor there either.

If conditions were different I might use a different anchor. If conditions varied I might carry multiple styles of anchors. Match your anchor to your boat, your bottom conditions, your use cases, and your needs. One size seldom fits all.

[OverEasy]

Hi All!

Yes, swivels are definitely great especially if coming up over a bow roller.

In former life experiences I’ve found that one definitely needs to do one’s regular inspections of them though!
The swivelly shaft and head are hidden from view and can wear/corrode/fret over time.
I’ve had opportunity to view some failed items that could have been avoided with inspection . (lost anchors & chain)….

Trick I was introduced to was to apply heavy grease at assembly and reinspections.
This minimizes binding and prolongs service life.
Service life depends upon how frequently and under what conditions it is used in…. Individual use conditions are as varied as boats and owners as BeFree pointed out.

The thing about shackles is they tend to be open, accessible and somewhat self cleaning.
There is no one right answer… just different options.

At times I have skipped the shackles and swivels altogether in favor of splicing an eye from the rode onto the chain interface with a metal thimble to minimize wear. Splicing three strand isn’t hard and a handy skill to have anyway.
I’ve also made dual and single eye splices to join an anchor and chain in the past that have proven durable.
Spliced connections also move easily over bow rollers and pulleys too!

It’s all about choices…

Best Regards,
Over Easy

[Gordo]

I also gave up on shackles. Besides the risk of comin undone, they seem to catch on stuff a lot. I love my rode-to-chain splice. When that hits the roller it slide right through!

[OverEasy]

Hi All!


Just came back from getting some new Dynema for my swing keel lift line (Mac26X) at West Marine.
While there and chatting with the sales clerk the topic of West Marine being founded originally on selling boat line came up.

He was wondering how I was going to secure the end on the keel and how I was going to secure a thimble on the deck end given how slick Dynema is. I explained how one uses a “fid” to slip the end under the sheath, how that cinches like a Chinese finger hand cuff and how one finishes up by thread whipping to lock it up. It was entirely novel to him.

The topic of splicing soon followed and how that was different and demonstrated to him how one does that for twisted three strand line to make a shackle loop out of a piece of scrap line…. You’d have thought I’d done a magic trick or something! He was fascinated!!!
Then showed him how to make a thimble eye and have it snug up tightly. I explained how one can also back splice an end so it locks it up and doesn’t unravel. I made mention of how for generations of mariners splicing was a common skill and used for all sorts of practical (as well as decorative) applications like joining two different line diameters together so the can fit over a pulley sheave or through a pulley block without jamming. I think he’s gonna start a new hobby!


Funny how topics overlap between the forum and everyday life!

I’m adding a traveling pulley block to my new Dynema keel lift line to reduce the amount of force required to raise the keel by half.
—> The Dynema is considerably stronger and slicker than regular braided line for a line diameter. Going from 3/8 to 3/16 diameter is still several times stronger and slides over the deck pivot pin MUCH more easily.
—> The addition of the traveler block allows me to use standard braided line for the handled portion which is much easier to grip. One end is fixed on deck then threaded through the traveler block pulley and then to the cockpit.
—> The frame of the traveler block is attached to the Dynema line via a SST thimble eye.
This will reduce the amount of effort to lift the keel by half which the Admiral will appreciate!
Maybe more given how much slicker the Dynema is over standard line.

Sorry about going of topic a bit here… my bad.

Best Regards,
Over Easy

[Russ]

Ah...splicing. My dad tried to teach me how to do it with 3 stranded line. He made it look easy. I never could get it right. I still have some dock lines he spliced eyes into. I buy dock lines already made. I don't know how to do braided.

I'd love to learn how to "back splice". I usually burn the ends to seal them together.

Do you have any sources to learn these skills?