Motor choice

[motodoc7263]

Regarding motor choice on a 26M. I am buying a boat with an old 2 stroke and I want to change to a new 4 stroke. My main question is, will a 60hp truly easily plane this boat with 2 1/2 people, a weekend of gear, and 24 gallons of fuel on board? I’m not wanting to try to go 25 mph, but would like it to plane easily and cruise at 15-18. Second question is regarding gearing. Which is better for this boat for my purpose, the standard gearing or the lower gearing/ bigger prop like a command thrust? Third question- 20” or 25” shaft?

[dlandersson]

Not sure what you mean by "easy", but yes it will plane with a 60 HP outboard.

Regarding motor choice on a 26M. I am buying a boat with an old 2 stroke and I want to change to a new 4 stroke. My main question is, will a 60hp truly easily plane this boat with 2 1/2 people, a weekend of gear, and 24 gallons of fuel on board? I’m not wanting to try to go 25 mph, but would like it to plane easily and cruise at 15-18. Second question is regarding gearing. Which is better for this boat for my purpose, the standard gearing or the lower gearing/ bigger prop like a command thrust? Third question- 20” or 25” shaft?

[kurz]

I plane with my fully loaded. Works ok up 5000 rpm an more. So starts at 9kn... Riding with 6000 rpm... you will do not so often...

I use a Merc 60HP, maybe you can get a 70HP Yamaha? At wich rpm the 70HP yamaha will get more power?

[kmclemore]

Actually, I’m in the midst of repowering my 26X presently, and just made the commitment to go with a Suzuki DF60AV, after considerable research and also some discussion with my marina and Todd from BWY. The marina loves Suzuki motors and says they rarely ever need major service. Todd likes the DF60AV and has the performance charts to back up the recommendation. Finally, many of the members here have that motor, and I’ve yet to hear a complaint. So… in a few months I’ll be unloading that old Nissan 50 two stroke in favor of the Suzuki.

[Starscream]

After driving an Etec-90 for 10 years, and now a Suzuki DF-90A, my opinion on "planing" a 26X has changed.

I used to think that the Etec-90 was planing the boat at 22mph, but after experiencing the DF90A, I can say that there is a very big difference between running at 22mph and running at 25+ mph. The Etec couldn't get the boat over 22 to 23 mph (more like 19 or 20mph with a full ballast), and with the Suzuki 90 I discovered that right around the 25 mph mark the nose of the boat suddenly comes down a few degrees and the speed will increase quickly up to 28 or 29 mph, kind of like it's breaking through some sort of barrier. With light loading I maxed out at 30mph with the Suzi. After experiencing this, I don't believe that the X was truly planing at 22 mph, and I don't think that a 60HP could really do any better than the Etec90. A 60HP will get the 26 up and over its bow-wave and well beyond hull speed, so it IS skimming/planing on the water in a certain way, but more like a plow and less like a skipping stone.

I'm not sure that the X is truly planing at 29mph either, but it certainly feels different than what it does at 22 mph. Both motors were the same HP, but the Etec turned a 14x11 prop with a 2:1 gear ratio at 4500 motor RPM, and the Suzi turns a 13.875x15 prop with a 2.6:1 ratio at 6000 RPM. The X is certainly better suited to a larger prop turning at lower RPM (the prop rpm, not the motor rpm). The larger prop also gives a much better performance for docking. The Suzuki 15" prop makes it almost like the boat has brakes.

A lot of owners have had good experience with large-prop 60 HP motors, many getting numbers similar to my small-prop Etec90. (Large/small is relative to the motor HP).

My advice is that everything else being equal, the motor that can turn the largest prop is the best plan for the X. It's the best for docking, and it's the best for low RPM on long-term cruising at hull speed. Experience shows that the same motor HP gets a lot better top speed with the larger prop, too.

[Starscream]

Actually, I’m in the midst of repowering my 26X presently, and just made the commitment to go with a Suzuki DF60AV, after considerable research and also some discussion with my marina and Todd from BWY. The marina loves Suzuki motors and says they rarely ever need major service. Todd likes the DF60AV and has the performance charts to back up the recommendation. Finally, many of the members here have that motor, and I’ve yet to hear a complaint. So… in a few months I’ll be unloading that old Nissan 50 two stroke in favor of the Suzuki.

Interesting, I didn't know that Suzuki made an AV version with a higher gear ratio. The 60HP AV version is 2.42:1 while the standard 60 HPversion is 2.27:1. Evinrude also made a pontoon version of their 90HP, which had a gear ratio of 2.36:1 instead of 2.0:1 like the standard Etec90. After I originally bought the Etec90, I often thought that I should have specced the pontoon series.

The prop of the AV version will turn slower at the same motor RPM, which allows a larger prop. That makes a lot of sense based on my experience, and stories of other large-prop motors like the Mercury Bigfoot. I know that OE also put on a Suzi 60HP, and is very satisfied with it, but I don't know if it's the AV version or not.... OE?

[kmclemore]

Interesting, I didn't know that Suzuki made an AV version with a higher gear ratio.

Yep, and hopefully it will be a good one.

https://www.suzukimarine.com/outboard/40-90hp/df60av/

[pitchpolehobie]

Waiting to hear about speed with the 60AV and a normal cruising load on the boat.

[kmclemore]

Waiting to hear about speed with the 60AV and a normal cruising load on the boat.

I corresponded with Todd at Blue Water Yachts about this. He sent me charts that document the tests, but the end result is that his "favorite is the Suzuki DF60AV with the high thrust (big prop) lower unit" (he thinks it was a 14" dia. x 11" pitch). He "found the 60AV to be almost as fast as the older Suzuki 70, although at somewhat higher RPM, but much smaller and lighter".

His tests were on a normally configured Mac with the usual supplies, but not heavy-laden for cruising.

[Drifter]

I'm very seriously looking into fitting a new Yamaha 85 2-stroke (can still get new 2 smokes in Borneo).

That should be considerably lighter than a 60 4-stroke, I'd presume? Heck, let's go ask a brain... actually no:

The weight of a Suzuki DF60 4-stroke outboard is 229 lbs
. In comparison, the Yamaha 85 2-stroke outboard weighs around 257 lbs

So about 30lb heavier, but an extra 15 ponies. The same brain tells me a 90 hp 4-stroke would be 350-400lb, so certainly a lot lighter for it's power. Also less weight hanging on the transom.

Any thoughts regarding such a beast on an X?

[Russ]

Waiting to hear about speed with the 60AV and a normal cruising load on the boat.

I corresponded with Todd at Blue Water Yachts about this. He sent me charts that document the tests, but the end result is that his "favorite is the Suzuki DF60AV with the high thrust (big prop) lower unit" (he thinks it was a 14" dia. x 11" pitch). He "found the 60AV to be almost as fast as the older Suzuki 70, although at somewhat higher RPM, but much smaller and lighter".

His tests were on a normally configured Mac with the usual supplies, but not heavy-laden for cruising.

Will be interesting to see your results. That motor also seems substantially lighter than the heavier 70.
The prop Todd put on my DF70 was too big for my altitude. I'm sure it's perfect for sea level, but I couldn't get to max WOT RPMs. I think I now have a 14x11 which works well.

[Russ]

Why just "bigger"? Why not "more".?

Yesterday I was just thinking "I wonder how Drifter is doing, haven't heard from him in a while?"

Why are you considering repowering? Is that motor still giving you grief?

Folks have mounted bigger motors on these boats. My Suzuki DF70 comes in at about 340lbs which I believe the DF90 clocks in about the same.
Some captains have installed even larger (> 110hp) motors.

The way I use the boat, I rarely operate above 8mph and don't need the extra horses. I'm sure the motor doesn't like how slow I use it. I will open it up every once in a while to blow out the carbon. It is nice to know that I have the extra reserve if I need to get out of someplace quick.

[pitchpolehobie]

Ive thought on and off about repowering from my 25hp 4stroke....If you dont mind...Whats the cost for engine parts and labor for the 60AV. How do you plan to get rid of the old engine? Craigslist etc?

[kmclemore]

Ive thought on and off about repowering from my 25hp 4stroke....If you dont mind...Whats the cost for engine parts and labor for the 60AV. How do you plan to get rid of the old engine? Craigslist etc?

I plan on selling it on Craigslist & Facebook. I took lots of photos and videos of it running at different speeds while we had the boat out this summer, so that I could then offer evidence that it's a decent motor.

I'm getting the Suzuki DF60AV (black) for $6,659 and the labor to install it is $2,500. I checked around and that's about the cheapest I could find in our area.

[Drifter]

I thought I already replied here but looks like it didn't go through? Try again...

Why are you considering repowering? Is that motor still giving you grief?

My old Honda 50 is fine, as far as I know, worked well last time, but it's pretty ancient now, and some parts are no longer available. I'd also like more power, to come closer to the claimed "25 mph" of the advert