Repost from wrong area

[Justpics]

Hello, I just picked up a 1986 Mac 25, in reasonable shape, rigging needs some help . some cosmetic work to be done.
my plans is to sail it for a few years( hopefully) as I will be 75 in July. eventually I want to sail it to Florida and give it to my Son (step) who lives in Jacksonville. I probably will be looking for advice and direction as I get it ready for the water. and do some upgrades.

I have been advised that the 25 is not a boat that can get along with the ocean.


Questions about the rigging specifically the back stay. not sure how it works. the metal it is attached to is bent, doesn't look kosher to me. some questionable pieces of metal on each side of the mast step.

IMG_2580.JPG [attachment=0]IMG_2586.JPG

Garry

[Be Free]

The first picture is similar to the attachments for the "baby stays" on an "X". They are used when raising/lowering the mast to keep it from moving side-to-side.

The second appears to be what passes for a topping lift on some of the older boats. The clip should attach to the rear of the boom to hold it up when the sail is not raised.

The third looks troublesome to me as well. It looks like half of a stay adjuster that has been pressed into use in an unorthodox way (or it could be perfectly normal for your boat). It appears to be bent so I suspect it is not totally correct.

[Justpics]

Bill, thanks for your quick reply, the Baby Stays are straps that are temporarily put on the mast for stabilization ? as for the bent metal the backstay wire attaches to it, the pic with the rope is also attached to the backstay about 6 ft from where it attaches to the bent metal piece. do you know what the U shaped pieces of metal are? thanks for your help in getting this figured out, the PO had never sailed it or had the past stepped. it dose have a Bimini with it also. my initial thought would be to turn the mount with the bent metal 90 deg. to put it in line withe the pull of the back stay

Garry

[Be Free]

Yes, the baby stays are only used when raising and lowering the mast. Keep in mind I've never worked on your model boat. I'm extrapolating from the "X", but they were both designed by the same person so there is likely a lot in common. I find that they interfere with the jib sheets when I'm tacking so I take them off after the mast is raised.

The baby stays would attach to the mast about 6' or so off the deck; one on each side (starboard/port). On the "X" they are held there with a long bolt that goes through the top of the stays and the mast. The other end of each stay will attach near the outside edge of the cabin top. On the "X" the bottom of the baby stay has a bent, flat connector that slides under that little strap in your picture. In fact that bent end looks very much like the bent part that is right next to that strap except that it would be on the end of piece of wire rope, not attached to the cabin top.

That short piece of cable that is attached about 6' up the back stay is supposed to connect to the end of your boom when you don't have the sail raised. It does the same job as a topping lift. You would obviously not have it attached when you are under sail since it would permanently attach the end of your boom to the back stay. Kind of hard to sail that way.

[Be Free]

Gary,
I just finished reading the M25 manual. There is no mention of baby stays in the mast raising section. That does not mean that your boat does not have them. It could be that the manual is deficient, they were added by a PO (Previous Owner), or it is possible that you have a different boat.

Let's eliminate that last possibility. There is a HIN (hull identification number) in one or perhaps two places on your boat. One should be somewhere near the transom. The other is often in the cabin, sometimes inside a cabinet. The HIN will identify the make, model, year, and serial number of the boat. Check it on the boat, not the registration.

Macgregor owners are notorious for modifying their boat to match their own (sometimes peculiar) tastes so changes made by a PO are very common. It's possible that the backstay came off another boat (might account for the strange connection at the stern). I have blocks in my mast that I have no idea what purpose they serve. I was in a bit of the same state you are in when I bought my "X". The seller had never raised or lowered the mast or put the boat on the trailer. The person he had bought it from had delivered it, set it up, launched it, and drove off into the sunset (technically I think he lived in Daytona so he drove off into the sunrise). My seller was of no use at all when it came to training so I had to dig, research, ask questions, and do a lot of trial-and-error.

And in answer to a previous statement: no, the M25 is really meant for going a long way offshore. That's not to say you can't or that other have not already done it, but you should probably wait until you know yourself and your boat a lot better before you push the boundaries. That said; Your boat; your rules.

[Justpics]

Bill. again thanks for your most generous advise and information. It helps clarify things a bit.

I Have no intention on sailing the ocean until the boat and I are very intimate with each other. My previous boat was a Oday Daysailer I

What to do about the bent piece of metal/tang? it kinda rubs me wrong to have it that way? this is not on center line but off to the starboard somewhat.
I would much prefer for it to pull inline. It also looks like the boat was set up for single handling as the lines lead back to the cockpit. the winches are close to the gunwale rather than on the cabin top.

IMG_2584.JPG

IMG_2587.JPG

[PSNA]

Photo #1:

The bent piece is a bracket for the mast raising system. You can easily straighten it out.

The piece sitting just to the right is for the pop-top.

Photo #2

That cable is called a pig tail. You attach it to the end of the boom to keep the mast level while the boat is not in use.

Photo #3

All looks fine. The previous owner installed hardware to lead your halyards to the cockpit. The cleats are to tie off those lines.

Good Luck!

[Be Free]

I'm looking at the first picture.
You are definitely set up for single-handing. The two blocks at the base of the mast and the two on the starboard side are for leading your jib and main halyards back to the cockpit. They will attach to the two cleats on the cabin top when the sails are hoisted.

I'm not sure what the fairlead about half-way back on the cabin top is for. It may be for the jib sheet so that it will line up with the cam cleat. Do you have the same fairlead/cam cleat arrangement on the port side? If so, that is probably what it is for.

It looks like you have two electrical connectors on the port side of the mast. One is probably for a VHF antenna and the other is probably your anchor light. It may also be an anchor light and steaming light combination.

I still don't know what those two odd pieces of hardware are on the starboard side of the mast. The strap is in the wrong orientation for a baby stay so forget what I said about that. The other one is the right size and shape for a baby stay connection but unless there is a matching one on the port side that can't be what it is.

I see snaps in front and along the side of your cabin top. That may have been for a dodger that would cover the companionway when the top was open. Maybe some of that mystery hardware had something to do with a dodger.

Second picture:
The black loop thing is probably for hanging your halyard(s) on when the sails are down. The silver track looks like and adjustable car that you would use with a genoa. The small black thing is for the frame of a bimini.

The winch could be used for raising the main or for handling the jib/genoa. The cleat behind it was probably put there for the genoa or it may be your stern cleat (or both).

Third picture:
Mostly confirms the all-lines-led-aft arrangement from the first picture.

Look at the vernier adjuster on the end of your lifeline. That is what I would expect to see on the backstay where it attaches to the transom, not that bent thing with a small machine bolt.

Have you found your HIN yet?

[Justpics]

Here is what the title says. MACR3990L586 from that i'm guessing it was made in May of 1986.

would it hurt if I rotated the bracket with the bent tang at the stern 90 deg to make the attachment more pleasant and functional and get rid of the bend?

Yes the odd pieces are duplicated on the Port side of the mast. I also do have a Bimini, and the snaps i would agree are for some pop top enclosure, that did not come with the boat. I do have a fairlead on the port side with a clam cleat near the port side cockpit, to me it is associated with the fairlead. not sure for what. unless it had something ro do with a roller furling, which i don't have. a friend and I took most of the bend out of the mast looks pretty good, not sure if I should stiffen it with some thin aluminum pop riveted on, maybe body panel adhesive also, or leave it as there was not a major bend. porta power did it easily.
Never thought of using the winch ro raise the main or Jib, as I have not had a winch before (nor a Wench !!)
I don't see where to cleat off the jib sheets?
told you I was full of questions. lol, but it is coming clearer as i fiddle with it. straightened all the stays and bunjed to the mast for storage.

later this week, probably Friday will try to step the mast with help of course, to see how it goes, work out the bugs

thanks again for the advice. all of you that have chimed in to help me get my sea(lake) legs.

I am thinking of Sail Aweigh as a name.

[Maraquita]

The backstay on my 25 was attached to that bracket at the stern with the same vernier fitting that your side stays have. What you have bolted on there is the center piece of that vernier. When you get the entire vernier installed the lower half will have 2 flanges surrounding the tab with a clevis pin though all 3 pieces. There is enough flex in the system, and the tab coming up out of the rail will bend enough that there is no strain on any one piece of it. The back stay has only very slight strain anyway, as the side stays are behind the mast and handle the stresses induced from the forestay.

The 2 flattened loops in front of the hatch are to hold up the pop top. Inside the cabin are 2 more on the coach roof that match those. Somewhere you have 2 pieces of steel about 18" long with flattened ends that are in a sort of a " \ " shape. If you don't have them, you can make some out of electrical conduit, I believe about 1 or 1 and 1/4 inches diameter. You left that heavy bugger up from inside the boat, and it pivots aft on 4 supports. While holding it up you slide the 2 pieces of metal into those loops. when you let the weight back down NOTHING is going to make it bounce loose. As you suspect many people had dodgers made to snap in place around the pop top, that would be what the snaps are for.

The other bent brackets look just like the one on my 26 for the baby stays of the mast raising system. BUT, the 25 didn't have a MRS so it would have to be custom made. In order for them to work they need to be aligned with the base of the mast where it is going to pivot when you lift it. Unless it is an optical illusion I don't see how those would work for that purpose, the baby stays would only get tight after the mast is up.

The rest of the rigging is all customized, and you are right, probably for single handing. Nothing in the manual will talk about that though, you are just going to have to start playing with lines and sails and see where you like it rigged. I certainly would not remove any of it, it looks pretty well thought out compared to the original rigging, which was "basic" to put it mildly.

Have Fun!

[Justpics]

Whats your thought on rotating the back stay mount 90 deg so it is inline with the axis of the backstay. rather than having a bend in the bracket.
thanks for your input. would you have a photo of how it is supposed to be?

Garry

[Hamin' X]

Here is what the title says. MACR3990L586 from that i'm guessing it was made in May of 1986.

The decoded info is:

MAC = Manufacturer, Macgregor
R = Model, Macgregor 25
3990 = Serial number
L = Month Made, L = December
5 = Year made, 1985
86 = Model Year, 1986

Lots more info at: https://wadler.org/boat-mac/index.php Hover over MacGregor for all the Macgregor info.

[Be Free]

The fairlead and cam cleat are for your jib sheets. Pop the sheet up to release it from the cam cleat and then pop it down to lock the sheet into place when you are on your desired tack. Always leave the "lazy" sheet uncleated.

Do you have a hole drilled through your mast, port to starboard, around 5-6 feet above the foot?

MACR3990L586
Your boat was manufactured in December of 1985 (L5) but it is designated as a 1986 model (last two digits). It was the 3990th M25 built.

Re: the backstay. Either put it back to original per Maraquita's description or look in the mods for an adjustable backstay (my preference and the way mine is set up). I do not trust the current arrangement.

You can use the winch to raise the mast but if you are pointed into the wind you can usually pull it up by hand. I have used the winch occasionally to raise it the last couple of inches when I can't keep the boat into the wind while single-handing.

Maraquita: glad you are here. I noticed on another thread that you used to have a 25. I was just about to ask you to help here! Thanks for the info on the original composition, particularly on the pop-top. I did not know that the 25 was one of the pop-top models.

[Justpics]

there are two winches at the bow on the trailer. one for the bow eye for loading the boat on the trailer, one higher i think to help raise the mast.

I was thinking about a split backstay, ( adjustable bridle) still contused on how the original backstay was configured, have not been able to find a good clear image of one. thew rest is falling into place, yes I do have a hole about 5-6 ft up from the foot. not sure why its there unless for some baby stays.

again thanks for your help. it is much appreciated.

G.

[Maraquita]

If you are talking about twisting the backstay bracket bolted into the fiberglass, that's a pretty big chunk of stainless. I think you would do more damage to it trying to twist it than just letting it flex when supporting the mast.

I've attached two pictures: one is of the set-up on my current 26D. I don't think the turnbuckle is factory, but the bracket is just like yours. It comes out at a slight angle and I believe that when you get your mast up, there will not be much bend in the bracket at all; The other picture is of the vernier that you should have back there (this one is on the sidestay of my 26D). as you can see, your PO bolted the center piece directly to the bracket. With the proper installation back there, you will have enough slop that I don't think that you will be to worried about the bend in the bracket.