Water ballast

[RanaSails]

Hi: I am new to the site and forum. I have acquired an old 1982 MacGregor 25. I was very excited to try it out even without the mast. so I backed it into the water with my son on board, It floated so I pushed it off the trailer and my son started to yell that it was filling up with water so we managed to get it back on the trailer and out of the water before it sank. Yes I did not have a plug in the hole at the bottom of the stern. But even so that should have only filled up the internal ballast tank not flooded the cabin itself!?

Am I doing something wrong or is there something wrong with this boat? Thanks for your help.

[pitchpolehobie]

The 25 is not a water ballast it has a weighted swing keel. I suspect that was a drain for your cockpit and it filled BC it was on an angle. Can you post pics? Also post pics of your entire boat. Everyone Noe and then someone thinks they have a 25 and its a 26. In that case the 26 does have a water ballast.

I'd also recommend reading the manual over once we verify your boat type!! Welcome to the forum you're gonna love the boat!

[RanaSails]

Thanks for the comments. This is a shot of the boat as it was filling up with water. There are 2 holes in the stern, one which drains the cockpit and has a white rim to it and one below that which is a 1" diameter hole cut through the hull with a hole saw. And yes this boat has a very heavy keel - which can be raised by a winch.

so do I have a 25? or what? Is the lower hole supposed to be there? Or did the previous owner make "modifications?"



The lower shot shows the two holes- Green arrow is the cockpit drain and yellow arrow points to the hole cut in the hull , there are also several small 1/4" holes drilled in the bottom of the boat ( no photo) are these supposed to be there? Or did all these holes serve to drain rain out of the boat while in storage? Any comments will be greatly appreciated.

[pitchpolehobie]

Thanks for the comments. This is a shot of the boat as it was filling up with water. There are 2 holes in the stern, one which drains the cockpit and has a white rim to it and one below that which is a 1" diameter hole cut through the hull with a hole saw. And yes this boat has a very heavy keel - which can be raised by a winch.

so do I have a 25? or what? Is the lower hole supposed to be there? Or did the previous owner make "modifications?"



The lower shot shows the two holes- Green arrow is the cockpit drain and yellow arrow points to the hole cut in the hull , there are also several small 1/4" holes drilled in the bottom of the boat ( no photo) are these supposed to be there? Or did all these holes serve to drain rain out of the boat while in storage? Any comments will be greatly appreciated.

Tat looks like a Mac 25.
Are the other holes below the waterline? I don't think they are supposed to be there
They may have been drilled to allow rainwater out. May need to fill them in w fiberglass. Other members may weigh in

Here is the area for manuals:
https://macgregorsailors.com/resources.html

Lots of YouTube videos on the 25.

[topcat0399]

Looks like someone drilled a hole for a plug.
See if you can find the plug. I wouldn't have that on my boat.

I highly encourage you to inspect and become 100% familiar with every inch of the bottom of YOUR boat.
Look for all openings and FIND OUT where they go.
If they have hoses on them make sure they are in good shape and properly installed.
Look for bad spots in the hull. Push and poke things with your hands
There could be openings for a galley sink, or a toilet, who knows what??

LOOK AT YOUR BOAT!!!

This is nothing to fool around with.

[Russ]

Agreed, looks like the previous owner did some mods. I don't think any Macs had a rain water drain.

A typical boat plug would probably work, but it is not normal.

[Jimmyt]

... there are also several small 1/4" holes drilled in the bottom of the boat ( no photo) are these supposed to be there? Or did all these holes serve to drain rain out of the boat while in storage?

Never heard of anything like this. Are these through the hull below the waterline? If so, you need to repair them. Sounds like the PO may have gotten tired of getting water out of the boat.

As said earlier, go over the boat with a fine tooth comb before you relaunch it. You should know what every penetration does and you should make sure everything is in good condition. A sinking will ruin a good day on the water.

Congratulations on the boat acquisition, and welcome to the forum. Post pics as you go through your boat. Also, ask questions as needed. Give a day or two for someone to respond. Thankfully, there is a lot of traffic on the forum, so it takes a while for folks to get back to you sometime.

[RanaSails]

Thanks to all who are helping me with good info. I am received that I am not a complete idiot an am dealing with a non-standard situation. yes the big hole in the back goes all the way in to the back area where the foam floats are. The small 1/4' holes go through the hull on the very bottom on both sides of the keel and make little geysers of water when the boat is in the water. I will fill all of those and put a bung plug in the big 1" hole in the back. Hopefully this will get me floating dry.

Then I need to get an outboard motor, any recommendations as to size and brand?
How about Bilge pumps? any recommendations on type and design?
Then I need to tackle the electrical system.
finally I may need help in how to rig the sails etc.!!!! One of the deck winches is missing where could I get a replacement?

Thanks again for your help at the start of this long journey.

[pitchpolehobie]

Thanks to all who are helping me with good info. I am received that I am not a complete idiot an am dealing with a non-standard situation. yes the big hole in the back goes all the way in to the back area where the foam floats are. The small 1/4' holes go through the hull on the very bottom on both sides of the keel and make little geysers of water when the boat is in the water. I will fill all of those and put a bung plug in the big 1" hole in the back. Hopefully this will get me floating dry.

Then I need to get an outboard motor, any recommendations as to size and brand?
How about Bilge pumps? any recommendations on type and design?
Then I need to tackle the electrical system.
finally I may need help in how to rig the sails etc.!!!! One of the deck winches is missing where could I get a replacement?

Thanks again for your help at the start of this long journey.

Yes try to take those things in stride. Lots of our boats previous owners did some funny stuff and I bet most of us have had to redo some "fixes" and "upgrades"

[RanaSails]

Hi MacGregor 25 sailors:

I have finally brought my 25 south to LA with only one trailer tire coming apart. now have 2 new tires on the trailer.

But I have a "Holy Boat" As you can see in the photos below someone has drilled a lot of holes in the boat. 3 go all the way through the hull!

In the area under the cockpit, (see 1st & second photos) 2 of the 4 holes drilled go all the way through the hull thus the boat sinks when i put it in water. (first photo shows 3 holes , red circle hole penetrates the hull as does second photo)

In the main passage (3rd & 4th photos) near the entrance three of the holes (labeled"A") are for the plywood 'wall'. but all the holes in the deck I have no clue what the do. They go through the floor but not the hull. The same for the holes drilled under the table location.


Question : Do any of you 25 owners know what these holes may be for? Are they all added or did some of them come with the original boat?

Thanks again for your help. I really want to get this 25 seaworthy.

[chipveres]

Goodness! Somebody went ape with an electric drill. My Mac 22 came from the factory with only one hole, that at the front of the cockpit draining directly into the keel trunk. Suspect you are going to become expert in patching holes. If you are not already an expert, I recommend This Old Boat by Don Casey. Available from Amazon used for as little as $8. It's the bible of small-boat repairs and will teach you everything from fiberglass repair to sailmaking. Or the free booklets published by West System.

Chip V.
S/V Sand Dollar
"Always needs sanding, always costs a dollar."

[RanaSails]

Thanks, I have filled all holes with fiberglass resin, other than the one which is below the rudder which I have put in a removable rubber plug. If this does not keep the water out I will fill this one as well. The only other through hull hole is the one for the cable to the swing keel and is not a problem.

The many holes through the 'floor' but not through the hull I have left.

Thanks for your advice, I will try to get the book you recommended. I have dismantled the 2 winches on the 25' and have used rust converter on them as they had heavy rust. putting them back together was a chore ( the springs!) the trailer winch rope was in bad shape as was the hook Used rust converter on the hook and painted it now it is good as new, even the snap spring works well.

I used gel coat on some deep scratches on the side of the hull. and calked the "clamp strip bumper" which joins the two haves of the boat together as most of the sealant had dried and come out.

I removed all Teak wood some of which was rotted on the bottom, treated the soft wood with wood hardener and the rest with teak oil, much better.

The rudder has galvanized bolts holding it together which are badly rusted, I have to cut them off and replace with stainless.

I do need help with the mast. there is no bolt to attach the mast to the boat. Could someone please send me a photo and or description of what I need to get for stepping the mast to the boat? Is it just one bolt or several? What is the procedure for attaching the mast and raising it?

Thanks again.

[chipveres]

The mast bottom bolt is 3/8 stainless by however long it needs to be to reach through the tabernacle and put a nut on. It slides up and down in the slot as you raise the mast. Blue Water Yachts sells a quick pin to make the job easier.

Chip V.

[OverEasy]

Hi RanaSails!

We are so sorry that some kind of a dangerous klutz drilled all those holes in your boat.
Yes, “dangerous” and “klutz” are the appropriate operative words.
While even the Romans had a problem with unscrupulous individuals popularizing the phrase “Buyer Beware” deliberately damaging a vessel that is to carry people is inexcusable given there appears to be no effort to convey those damages to you at purchase.

First it sounds like you are new to working with fiberglass repairs. If I’m mistaken I apologize in advance.
I’d like to see you and your family (&friends) fully enjoy your boat for many years to come with safety and confidence.
Nothing sucks the joy out of boating faster than repeat repairs of things you thought were fixed except being fearful of water moving from the outside of the boat to the inside of said boat …..

The following are some hopes/suggestions based upon experience with fiberglass structures.
=> I’m hoping that when you filled the holes with resin that you over drill them to expose ‘new’ smooth edges and possibly even used a countersink to bevel the edges, ideally on both sides of the holes if possible. This is needed to get the old crud and dirt and broken fibers removed that will result in a weak contaminated bond.
=> I’m also hoping that you cleaned and scuffed the areas around the holes to provide a footing area for the resin to adhere to. When made most fiberglass structure surfaces have a residual coating of mold release and or wax that if left in place will inhibit an appropriate bond to the parent structure.
=> I’m hoping that you didn’t just use plain resin to putty fill the holes. There needs to be some glass fiber material with the resin to give it strength. Resin by itself, especially many epoxies, can tend to become brittle with age.
=> I’m hoping that you overfilled the holes on both the inside and outside to help mechanically capture repair materials to the hull parent material. It wouldn’t hurt to have also applied a 10x diameter patch piece of fiberglass material over at least the interior (and exterior) of the hole being repaired. This reinforces the local area as well as retaining the plug.

A properly done repair should restore the integrity of the structure as well as seal out the water from coming in.

Might I suggest that you also apply some marine grade epoxy paint to the repaired areas. This will inhibit water migration into the parent fiberglass and the potential for osmotic blistering later.

Might I also suggest repairing the topside deck holes as well sooner rather than later.
The holes probably have rough edges and loose fibers which can pierce the skin or cause cuts.
Boats aren’t necessarily the most hygienic surfaces.
Those holes are also letting water in between the tod deck and the hull where it can become trapped leading to other issues like stagnant water ponding. (An friend once had water trapped in an aft bilge area of his boat and contended with a persistently recurring gnat & mosquito issues until we chased it down and cleaned it out along with placing a vacuum out line so it could be more easily emptied should it collect water there again…)

You may want to make absolutely sure that whoever drilled those holes didn’t pierce into the water ballast tank areas.
To miss even one ballast tank hole after your efforts would be a shame.

Again, really sorry that this happened to you but it sounds like you are a good competent individual who can see past the problems tosolutions and the future enjoyment you boat will provide you and your family.

There are the original MacGregor Manuals in the “RESOURCES” section of this website in addition to original brochures that should provide the mast base interface information you asked about.

Best Regards,
Over Easy

[Piddle and Futz]

So sorry to learn that someone did that to your Mac... Happy you are putting things to right, with the assistance of our community experts.

I have to ask... I've considered drilling holes at the corners of the inside floor (similar B holes in photo 3) to allow water to drain from cabin floor into bilge (such as it is) and be pumped out by the bilge pump I'm placing at the battery box floor low point.
Wondering if others have done this and would recommend.
(Obviously no intent to drill through outer hull or into ballast.)