Is Denia (Alicante) to Ibiza possible?

[NiceAft]

You never mentioned if you will be wearing a Kilt :?:Since I don’t know what a “Killter“ is, I assume it’s you?

[Killter]

haha! no, no kilt.

The kilts are more used by our Scottish brothers, although a lot of Irish guys wear them when they get married....its way to cold for kilts! We have a part of our military that wear kilts for official celebrations (picture below), but it isnt common!

(Killter is a nickname from original name, Killian - which means little forest or little church in our language)!

[Be Free]

According to Billy Connoly, "The Scots were an Irish tribe! A lot of people don't know that. Yeah! A kind of mentally ill Irish tribe. The chief said, "C'mon lads! I know an even RAINIER place!"

[Killter]

Yes. The original Irish and Scots are the same people. I say 'original' because Scotland and the north of Ireland have a lot of decendents of english planters.

We speak the same language and share a lot of the same culture....and both sets of people are a little mad!.

[NiceAft]

.and both sets of people are a little mad!.

Shh Highlander maybe lurking

On the other hand, he just might agree; he just had a birthday, and might just be mellowing with age.

[Killter]

Just to follow up on this in case anyone needs info for the future, and also important info for sailing in Spanish Med.

I was offered a very good mac and trailer for €12,000. But in the end I decided not to buy it due to the fact that the Med. sea around Spain is divided into 7 zones. A boat can only sail within the designated zone for which the craft was built. A Mac can only sail within 12 miles from the coast. My idea was to sail to Ibiza, which is a lot more than 12 miles. If you go beyond these legal limitations you are breaking the law and will receive hefty fines. More info below. Its in Spanish.

https://marinos.es/categoria-de-diseno- ... avegacion/

[NiceAft]

WOW

To the best of my knowledge, here in the USA, you can sail as far out as you want, even if it’s lunacy to try it in a Mac.

I am posting the translation to those rules you attached.

“Design category and navigation area 20/04/2020 Nautical Gestoría is not the same as the category of design of a boat than the navigation area, to which it is authorized to navigate. But there are two concepts that are related and depend on each other. We are going to try to explain the differences and similarities and how to determine what it affects the navigation of recreational boats. And how when and how to change the navigation zone and / or design category. Navigation zone Design category The design category began to be applied in recreational vessels in 1998. Then the European Union published the first "EC" marking directive. The 2013/53 / EU Directive on recreational boats and jet skis are currently in force. In this regulation, the features that the boats must meet to navigate are expressed. Attending to its structure and meteorological conditions that can be given; By virtue of the distance of coastline and type of waters where they sail. The design category determines navigation within an area attending to its construction, the wind that is capable of withstanding and the waves. It is considered that the greater Distance of Costa, the ship must be able to withstand adverse weather conditions for longer. And you must have buoyancy, maneuverability, stability and tightness according to the probability of finding wind and waves in the worst navigation conditions. Features of the design category can be differentiated 4 design categories that are identified with letters. Oceanic navigation: with great autonomy and capable of withstanding over force 8 on the Beaufort scale (more than 40 sustained wind knots), in addition to resisting the wave strap over 4 meters high. HIGH SEA: capable of withstanding winds of up to 40 knots, equivalent to a force of force 8 on the Beaufort scale and a significant height of wave of up to 4 meters. Here are the majority of megayates. Coastal waters: with capacity to resist wind winds 6 on the Beaufort scale (approximately 25 knots). The maximum wave height demanded is 2 meters. Indoor waters: and protected waters capable of sailing at a maximum wave height of 30 centimeters and resisting wind winds 4 (15 knots). Design category Force Beaufort wave height greater than 8 greater than 4 meters b inferior to 8 up to 4 meters c lower than 6 Up to 2 meters d less than 4 Up to 0.3 meters at any time the design category refers to the navigation distance from the coast, but to the most unfavorable conditions that a ship can face during its navigation. From the design category depends on the navigation zone to which it is authorized to navigate to a recreational boat or boat. Although, in Spain, each design category is subscribed at a maximum distance, determined by the navigation area: design category denomination maximum distance oceanic unlimited sea 60 miles c coastal waters 12 miles d protected waters Interior Waters Yacht Invictus 280 TT How to change the design category The design category assigns the manufacturer of the boat and certifies with the CE marking. It is awarded after the models presented by the shipyards have been subjected to sea tests and naval engineering. This certification limits the ship's navigation area and also the maximum allowable power. Sometimes the opportunity to change the design category arises, because the boat is going to be allocated to a higher navigation or the greater power of the expected one is going to be incorporated. In these cases it must be an authorized company and the signing of a collegiate naval engineer who accredits that the boat exceeds the conditions required by the legislation. The report is transferred to the maritime captaincy and finally is the head of the maritime inspection that gives it the change. It is not necessary to change the design category to navigate in lower waters than authorized, you just have to request it to do it in waters that has not been authorized. All these administrative and naval engineering procedures are provided with marine nautical academy and managing. TIMONIER-745-S Navigation zone Design categories are common for all of Europe, however each country has power to delimit the boat navigation area through the ship's office and the assignment of a navigation zone consisting of the permission of navigation There are more navigation areas than design categories. The navigation areas in Spain depend on the design category indicated by the CE marking and the provision of safety equipment and communications that the ship records. Navigation distances The different navigation zones are: unlimited navigation up to 60 miles of coast up to 25 miles of coast up to 12 miles of coast up to 5 miles of harbor or place of shelter up to 2 miles of harbor or place of shelter Indoor waters Protected Navigation Zone distance category unlimited a 2 60 miles B 3 25 miles B 4 12 miles c 5 5 miles (port) c 6 2 miles (from port) C 7 interior waters d The navigation zones 2, 3 and 4 determine the navigation area between the coast and a line parallel to it that is the indicated distance. However, zones 5 and 6, the navigation area is limited to the arc traced with the distance from a harbor, marine or shelter. Although, a boat can "afford" being in zone 5, there are between ports less than 10 miles. And in Zone 6, if there are between ports less than 4 miles. Important: The beach is not considered a place of shelter (Royal Decree 875/2014). Correspondence between navigation zone and design category The maximum navigation zone that can hold a boat the mark the design category. However, a vessel can be enrolled in any area that is comprised within its design category. The correspondence between design categories and navigation area is: design category navigation maximum distance 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 unlimited 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 60 miles c 4, 5, 6 and 7 12 miles d 7 Indoor waters Change the navigation zone to determine if an increase or change of the navigation zone can be performed, first must determine the construction date of the ship. If it is after 1997, that is, it has CE marking, the maximum navigation zone is determined by the design category. In this case, the manufacturer has already limited the maximum distance from Costa. And maritime captaincy does not perform the maritime zone increase. If it is prior to 1998 - it has no CE marking, the navigation zone determines captaincy in application of Circular 7/95. That ultimately, the assignment of navigation zone at the discretion is discussed at the criterion of the maritime inspection. We can find ourselves with the paradox that there are capitals that will allow a boat to increase the navigation zone and other captains that will reject the request. The Marinos Advisory Service gives guidance and authorized representation in the requests to change zone of navigation. Navigation zones and nautical titles Each of the navigation zones corresponds in turn with a nautical recreation degree that is required: yacht captain: all zones Pattern of yacht: zones 2 to 7 PER: Zones 4 to 7 gnb: zones 5 to 7 Navigation License: Zones 6 to 7 If you need to change the design category or the navigation area of your boat has the professional nautical nautical seabaría services. We take care of everything, from the technical inspection to the processing. We are your trusted nautical manager.”

[kurz]

well, I did not read the text from nice aft. BUT as far as I know is the CE ratings (A til E) a classifications not for the waters, but for the trip.

Class C (that the Macs are) means: You shall not do a trip that gets more than 2m waves and not more than baufort 6. That is tipical in closed waters or near shore.

But I never saw the rule that is forbidden to cross a water that is bigger than 12miles.

So far I crossed 2 times from Corsica to Italien main land. That is more than 60miles... But we watched that we had good forecast...

[NiceAft]

Kurz said:

But I never saw the rule that is forbidden to cross a water that is bigger than 12miles.

So far I crossed 2 times from Corsica to Italien main land. That is more than 60miles... But we watched that we had good forecast.

Kurz,

I’m sure Kilter is rechecking; either way, the reality of you actually doing it, should relieve his worries.

[dlandersson]

According to Billy Connoly, "The Scots were an Irish tribe! A lot of people don't know that. Yeah! A kind of mentally ill Irish tribe. The chief said, "C'mon lads! I know an even RAINIER place!"

[OverEasy]

Wow!
Interesting and very logical rules to work within.
Most rules are based upon tragedy, so given the detailed and certification process, we figure some capable people used their experience and knowledge to create these categories. No doubt there were some lively debates among them as they developed.

I believe that the Mac26X was listed as a Class B here in the States but the CE is different.

I’ve worked through and with a variety of CE and Eruo Standards requirements for eguipment and tech stuff over the decades. I’ve found them to be reasonable and well thought out, even when it required additional aspects to be incorporated in client’s legacy (or other vendor) equipment.

Fortunately I found that if approached appropriately within the regulator/inspection community there were valid and appropriate constructive solutions. In my own designs I found that working within the rules was resulted in a better product that was more functional and actually cost less than a competitor design/product.

I figure the same would apply to boating regulations.

One thing I’d suggest in addition to all the really really good advise and suggestions made for long distance out of sight of land is to have a good VHF radio and antenna system along with several spare long duration smoke & signal flares as well as the means to raise a good sized distress flag up the mast. Especially with children aboard.

Just my two cents…

I wonder how things worked out for Kilter?

Best Regards
Over Easy

[Be Free]

...
I believe that the Mac26X was listed as a Class B here in the States but the CE is different.
...

I was not aware of any US based rating similar to the CE classes. Where is this codified?

[OverEasy]

Hi Be Free!

As I’m currently stuck ice bound in a holding pattern up in NH due to unexpected medical issues (a continuing saga) I don’t have access to my reference materials for the Mac26X down in SC.

I believe I saw a reference in an old Sailing World or related magazine where there was an article about “Blue Water Sailing in Small Boats”.
I could be wrong on the magazine but it was somewhere in the 2000 to 2008 time frame if I recall correctly.

What stirred the little grey cells was a posting:

Interesting article.
Post by Dguy » Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:22 pm

https://eskimo.com/~mighetto/p11.htm

The linked post referenced a discussion on the capabilities of the Mac26X in less than ideal conditions.
The link is not where I originally came across the information. It was definitely a printed article in some old sailing magazines I had from a flea market (and hiding away from the Admiral for fear she would “file them” with the rest of my former periodical collections…. ).

If I recall correctly the discussion mention something about an International Sailing Fedreation and equivalency of different certification criteria and classification terms. The Mac26X was mentioned in the article in a non biased manner as having design characteristics that put it in a better position as being more capable in what could be considered “Blue Water conditions” as technology improvements warrant a classification based upon more objective capabilities. Smaller and more capable equipment and technological feature functions are redefining what can fit and perform in smaller boats. One example was more compact yet more powerful solar cell panels and then novel high capacity Lithium battery technologies. Another was compact RO (reverse osmosis fresh water makers, that while not fast, we’re none the less capable of getting the task accomplished. I recall something also said about prepackaged dehydrated meals (MREs?) could provide more than sufficient food stores for extended trips using only an immersion 12 VDC hot water heater popular with overland truckers and RV travelers negating the need for gimbal stoves etc…

(There was something about sail area limitation being a good thing to avoid a vessel from being over powered and knockdown avoidance…but that could have been in another related article on how much sail was enough but not too much….)

The article referenced an objective formulaic approach to vessel ratings that was I believe was being used by insurers to address the paradigm change in the availability of smaller and more capable boats in the market such as the Mac26X.

Maybe the posting link above may reference the sources better than I can at this moment. It also has subtopic tabs that are still active for possibly more information. This posting link was memory jog for what I’d read previously when researching potential boats objectively rather than by sales and marketing brochures.

While I’m nothing more than a novice at sailing and boating and enjoying learning a whole new subject and endeavor I do know from my personal and professional life that a skillful and knowledgible individual, even with less than mediocre equipment, can most often beat someone else of mediocre capability with the best equipment in a contest. Been there, done that, got the trophies/awards/tee-shirts.

Hope that helps some.

Best Regards
Over Easy

[Be Free]

I can understand racing organizations and insurance companies trying to classify boats as "offshore" or "close to shore". The CE regulations are are actually law in their countries. I was concerned that I missed something here in the US.

Re: Frank and his zeal for Macgregors and the "X" in particular - there is a grain of truth in what he says but he is/was a "true believer" and sometimes sees things through very rose-colored glasses. That said, I have spent a week or more on my "X" and never touched land; I've never been in weather that I was worried that the boat could not take it (me maybe, not the boat). I do try to stay within 50 miles of shore and don't go out when the weather is expected to be dangerous.

In the words of that great philosopher "Dirty" Harry Calahan, "A man's got to know his limitations".

[Killter]

[/quote]
But I never saw the rule that is forbidden to cross a water that is bigger than 12miles.

So far I crossed 2 times from Corsica to Italien main land. That is more than 60miles... But we watched that we had good forecast...
[/quote]

hi Kurz....This is a Spanish Government rule and only covers Spanish Med. A bit more info below.

http://medberths.com/2014/08/new-mariti ... sh-waters/