Rusty swivel bracket, Honda 50

[opie]

My Honda 50hp motor frame and swivel (items 3 and 7) are rusted badly internally and the grease I have put in their since my old post here 10 years ago has solidified and made the engine hard to turn. I have searched the net and found these remedies:
1. Heat with torch to melt out gunk
2. Spray with degreaser or stronger, two or three bottles, up into swivel.
3. Remove engine and put on a bench to clean or replace.
Anybody been down those paths??

[Be Free]

I dismantled and unfroze a couple on a pair of old 30-something HP Johnsons about 50+ years ago. I don't recall it being terribly difficult. Does that count?

[opie]

Anything less than what you did is delayed proper maintenance. Congrats. But, dumb me, I will blast it with solvent spray tomorrow so as to postpone the inevitable for another season.
Opie

[Be Free]

Time is your friend. Use lots of penetrating oil and be patient. All I had was Marvel Mystery Oil so I had to be very patient.

[opie]

Be Free,
One can of penetrating oil, plus 2 cans of Gunk degreaser, plus 1 can of carb cleaner. Result: lots of old grime and grease into my oil change pan set underneath the engine. Then I put degreaser into the grease gun and pumped degreaser and then grease into zerk fitting at bottom of swivel post. All I got was the fluid coming out 1 inch above the fitting at the lower joint. The design idea of the lower oil seal is that grease into that fitting will come out the top of the swivel post and flush out the gunk. That's why only a 40mm thrust washer is at top and no oil seal. Unfortunately, that brilliant design only means there is NO SEAL at the top of the post and if you don't regularly flush the post with grease, sea water (or fresh) will invariably get into the post once grease gets a bit depleted. And water will just sit, sit, sit... there until you get a locked post or tight post because of corrosion.
Of course, there is the mighty DangarStu youtuber who deftly pumps out the gunk of a similar engine and then puts a torch on the post to further get gunk out and then produces a fine smooth turning swivel. But, that only works with old grease and not total corrosion. (And heat will most probably will not be advisable on the Honda post because there are two nylon liners inside. If you melt the liners it only adds to your woes.) So, after all my efforts to remove the gunk inside, I found that the engine would turn if I put a heavy shoulder into it before I started anything and then it would not turn even a centimeter after I removed the old grease and it was just rust on rust inside. Another DangarStu video on a 9.9 hp frozen post showed how he had to saw open a stuck swivel case and give up. Well, that's my situation. So, I am high and dry, looking for a new mount frame and swivel case.
Bottom line:. Don't be me. Pump grease into your zerk fitting until it comes out the top of the swivel case, and do it every time you can!!!!!

[the dude]

Hello Opie..great diagnosis of the problem.My 01 BF50 has this problem,but i rarely connect the steering linkage to it because iam content to motor along at 6 mph with the outboard always centered straight.It works for me as iam on a mooring for the season and dont need that extra control.I read of one guy with this motor tap a zerk up top with success,but dont know how bad it was to begin with.Also the top part of this bracket that connects to the steering linkage rod is completely rusted over and each season i cover it in marine grease to prolong the inevitable.I have read of that part breaking on high speed power turns,not on a Mac though.The really bad news about this part is its "not available".Thats right they quit making that part for earlier and later models. I was able to find a great condition case and swivel mount off a BF35 that fits BF50,on ebay.Its a reliable engine but Honda has had their corrosion issues in the marine department and that one part takes the cake!

[opie]

the dude,
You have a great fix in that you don't use the swivel post at all. I am tempted to try that, except I use a ramp with lots of summer traffic and the craziness there.

[opie]

the dude,
I went and sat on my porch swing, ate noodles, and could not get your suggestion out of my mind. If I follow your fix, I just accept the BF50A motor to be fixed straight down the centerline of the mac. Then I am DONE. I can be in the water tomorrow!!! And steer with the rudders, probably smart to stay below hull speed at all times. I am getting older and the admiral and I idle around most of the time anyway.
Wow. This idea is going off topic a bit, so I am starting a thread with the question, "Who has used rudders-only to steer the Mac in slow but crowded conditions, aft and forward?" So, I'll post that now, and leave this thread for rusty pivots and swivels.
Thanks

[Seapup]

I had the same probem with a suzuki I purchased used. Long story short an impact grease cleaning tool will free it up. You fill it with automatic tranny fluid or another fluid of choice and pound the heck out of it with a hammer to drive fresh fluid in under high pressure and force the concrete hard grease and rust out. It took me a couple applications over a few days. I was only able to get a few drops in at a time at first but eventually it fixed the problem without havng to disasssemble the motor. The other fix required removing the powerhead and seperating the mid unit.

Something like this:



https://www.amazon.com/Lincoln-Lubricat ... 5199&psc=1

[opie]

Seapup,

You have given me hope. A more forceful injection of fluid or grease into the swivel post grease fitting is a great idea.

To review, the pic below shows the single grease fitting at the bottom (red), just above the only oil seal in the swivel post. The design calls for grease from the bottom to push gunk out the top where there is no seal. My hand lever grease gun just pumps grease out the lower frame connection (green) obviously overcoming and bypassing the oil seal, but there must be an obstruction (yellow) so severe in the middle of the post that no oil or grease can get thru and out of the top of the swivel post

I'll try your ram-it-to-the-max method and let you know what happens.


Opie

[opie]

Seapup,

Being el cheapo, I am ordering this ram below instead of your fine suggestion.

As you said, I liked the instruction......."insert on grease fitting and slam with a hammer..."

[Seapup]

Kinda tough to tell how that one works, but if you can hammer it it should work. If I remember right I found one at harbor freight and after research I used a 50/50 mix of acetone and automatic tranny fluid and a 3lb sledge. That solution forced in over a few days disolved the blockages and got things freed up. It took some soaking time. Hope it works!

[opie]

view from starboard side of engine showing 6 new grease fittings numbered and the original grease fitting, circled


view from port side of engine.

I have fixed my rusted, almost frozen swivel post. It is now turnable with two fingers, engine disconnected from steering arm. A huge difference and quite a relief.
Details:
- I did not use the impact grease driver I ordered. It just seemed that anything you hit with a hammer is too salty for me to accept on my aluminum housing.
- I drilled and tapped into the swivel post, 6 new grease zerk fittings. A trip to Ace Hardware and a short class there in the aisle with the experienced staff person made the drilling and tapping a
breeze.
- Recall that the factory design has a oil seal below the original zerk, so that, in principle, all grease should go up and out the top.
- In my case the original fitting just pumped grease out past the lower seal because of total blockage above it, probably in the upper bushing.-
- Taps 1 and 2 were worthless, just pumped grease out the bottom. Tap 4 was below the upper bushing and did the same as 1and 2.
- Taps 3, 5, and 6 were into the area of the black nylon upper bushing. (I know because the drill brought out aluminum shavings, then black nylon shavings, then hit the metal post where I stopped.) Most likely, I only needed tap 3.
- I pumped grease into 3, 5, and 6 but it hardly could be pumped. Tight fit. I moved engine with my shoulder an inch or two each way, then more grease, then more shoving. I finally got rusty, filthy grease to come out both the top and bottom of the post. 1 hour of shoving and pumping until I got the free movement I wanted.
- Unsightly mess of fittings, but It works. Again, maybe just tap 3 was necessary.
- Most YouTube videos show the enormous task of removing the entire actual engine from its housing. Not just removing the outboard from the transom, but the engine out. ugh.
Thanks to all.
Fair seas.

[Jimmyt]

Wow! You get the tenacity award! Congratulations on freeing it up. Great solution.

[Be Free]

That's amazing! I never would have thought of adding grease fittings. You should be able to find small square-headed plugs that you can put in place of the unneeded fittings. Painted to match they would be much less noticeable.