Do You Want to Know or Not?

[BOAT]

Oh, that part will be easy - it's just a little tiny stick you drop in the hole. I have not started on it yet. I guess I better get moving.

[Jimmyt]

Oh, that part will be easy - it's just a little tiny stick you drop in the hole. I have not started on it yet. I guess I better get moving.

Not rushing you. Just enjoying the progress and looking forward to more! This is a neat project!

[BOAT]

Well, my plan was to just drop a very thin rod down the existing hole - the whole idea in my head was for it to be a totally portable device like the meat thermometer you put in the turkey on Thanksgiving Day. In my dreams I envisioned a device that you could buy on Amazon for about 11 bucks that looked sort of like a meat thermometer that was battery operated from a coin battery and just used blue tooth to send the water level to your cell phone. I have a thermometer I use that works just like that and you could even have an LCD screen on the unit if you wanted but not really needed.

Anyways - the idea is that you can take it out or replace the ends and such because salt is bad. Also some people would like to drill a small hole and put it in that and so I thought a thin 1/8" rod would be best for the probe. That way you could mount in a separate hole too if you wanted. I do not need to do that because my vent bowl is enclosed and vented so I can just drop it in the big hole that is already there.

[K9Kampers]

As I see it, a portable probe is the same as how the boats come from the factory, stick yer finger in the hole - not quite full / full. As for the LED display eliminating having to look over to see if the water stopped flowing out the transom gate, you still have to look / reach over to close the valve.

To bring the LED / probe full circle would be to add an electric or hydraulic screw or ram to close the gate at the touch of a button. But then, who isn't going to look over to see if it is actually closed?!

[BOAT]

As I see it, a portable probe is the same as how the boats come from the factory, stick yer finger in the hole - not quite full / full. As for the LED display eliminating having to look over to see if the water stopped flowing out the transom gate, you still have to look

The idea was to know the ballast was full without leaving the helm to go forward and stick your finger in the hole.

With the LED when I get a green light I know the bowl is flooded and I can close the rear valve - no need to walk to the front of the boat.

I can't tell that the water is no longer coming out of the valve gate when under power - I think it's done but I can't really tell - several times I have closed the gate too soon.

[Jimmyt]

Somehow I got confused. Are you building a probe, with indicator lights at the pedestal; or an all-in-one unit that fits in the funnel that you can see from the pedestal?

[BOAT]

Okay, the probe is just a really thin rod that drops into the existing vent hole in the bowl. If you have a setup where you need to put a stopper in that hole it sort of eliminates the need for the probe because you need to go forward to put in the stopper!

This is not a mod for the STOCK boats. This is a mod intended for boats that have the modified bow vent - those of us that have modified our bow vents in such a way that we no longer go forward to plug the hole in the ballast vent. Many people have a hose connected to that vent now so then no longer need to go forward:


This mod works by either dropping the probe down the existing hole or in a new hole in the vent bowl like kurz did on his boat.

I have a highly modified bowl vent that is enclosed so I can just drop my probe right into the existing hole - I do not have a picture of it's current configuration.


This is a picture of an older version of my bow vent. I now have the valve off center and a cap in the middle where I can access the hole if I want to.



I changed that vent about 2 years ago - I will send a picture when I get a chance. The picture will help explain things.

Because of the way my vent is set up I can open and close the bow vent from the pedestal. To fill and empty the ballast I do everything from the cockpit.

[Jimmyt]

So, the sensor will be at the bow funnel, but the display will be on the pedestal. That's what I thought you were doing, but you confused me a couple of posts earlier while you were giving K9Kampers a wire brushing.

I'm always happy when it's someone else's turn.

[BOAT]

So, the sensor will be at the bow funnel, but the display will be on the pedestal. That's what I thought you were doing, but you confused me a couple of posts earlier while you were giving K9Kampers a wire brushing.

I'm always happy when it's someone else's turn.

The point k9 made was valid - if I need to go forward to plug the hole what's the point of a light? I'm going to be up there anyways.

I understood what he was saying. What he forgot was that I do not use a plug with my set up. I would not expect him to remember that.

I think the only guy left that has a setup like mine is kurz. None of the other guys that actually gave me the idea in the first place ever post here anymore.

[Jimmyt]

So... it's been a few days since you demonstrated a working prototype and taught me about printed circuits in breadboard configuration. Are you spending time calculating my new capsize ratio due to my behemoth galley project or are you finishing up the ballast monitor and just keeping it under wraps for a big reveal? Inquiring minds want to know!

[BOAT]

Too busy getting the boat ready to go out right now. I may not finish this one until after these season is over.
It's the probe I am working on right now. I think it's going to be an 8th inch polycarbonate rod dipped in epoxy. Still working that one out.

I have all the wires worked out.

[BOAT]

This mod did not work out. I have been out on the boat a lot over the past few weeks and finally got this mod hooked up in a temporary fashion to test it out and with enough wire to run from the sensor in the bow all the way to the pedestal and all that wire adds too much resistance and the electronics gets wonkey. The lights do not light up all the way, intermittently, the transistors are misfiring, - I think the transistors are firing off the resistance in the wire instead of the resistance in the water.

I have concluded this one is a failure.

I have had many failures over the years on these mods and I guess I was due one.

We are getting ready to head out a gain for a trip up the coast and when we get back I will have some new ideas for some new mods.

You in some and you lose some!

[Jimmyt]

You could probably change the gate resistor to compensate for the longer wire. I think you can make it work if you want to keep at it. Might be as simple as paralleling two of your resistors at the gate (or three, or four - we could actually figure it out)... You might get prefer to just add them one at a time till the display stabilizes though. Or, gasp, you could buy some smaller resistors.

On second thought, forget the above and put the electronics up with your level sensor, and run only your display wires to the back, so just the LED power wires are long. The sensor wires can all be short and your electronics don't have to change. It's actually a better design than running the ultra low current sensor wires a long distance anyway.

You just ain't broke enough eggs to make the omelette yet.

[BOAT]

.........

On second thought, forget the above and put the electronics up with your level sensor, and run only your display wires to the back, so just the LED power wires are long. The sensor wires can all be short and your electronics don't have to change. It's actually a better design than running the ultra low current sensor wires a long distance anyway.

Okay Jimmy, that is a flash of genius.

So let me repeat this to make sure I understand:

I put the board near the bow vent where the sensor is. I then run the lamp circuit out on the long wire. ?

I really can't have lamps on the circuit board at the vent if I do that (they are not needed anyways). So really I need to rebuild the board. Not a big deal - the whole thing costs less than five bucks.

This is all great advice but there are other issues I am running into - the transistors are really delicate. They seem to be sensitive to static and stuff and they are just not robust - and prone to failure.

Also the LED lights - they are stupid - why is it that the green one requires less power than the yellow one?? That's stupid! So when the resistance goes up with more cable the greens work but the yellow don't!!! Is this normal that you electronics guys have to deal with different power requirements for lamps that are the same ??? This is just not how it is in the 12 volt world - I don't get it.

Obviously I am no good on electronics. I put the descriptions of the stuff I used and the links but really I think I am using the wrong stuff. I think there are better transistors and better LED's out there that might be more stable. Before I rebuild this I need to figure out better ingredients.

If any of you guys out there are smart about electronics and can suggest better ingredients for this project I would appreciate it. I am a pretty lousy cook.

[Jimmyt]

So let me repeat this to make sure I understand:

I put the board near the bow vent where the sensor is. I then run the lamp circuit out on the long wire. ?

I really can't have lamps on the circuit board at the vent if I do that (they are not needed anyways). So really I need to rebuild the board. Not a big deal - the whole thing costs less than five bucks.

Yes, put the board right near the vent. Remove the LEDs from the board. I would take the LEDs off and solder the long leads in their place - re-using the same board and components. Run the lamp circuits with long wire. One ground, and one for each color.

You balance the brightness by changing the source/drain resistor. Also, you have to limit the current to keep from burning up the LED or the transistor. If they are burning really bright, throw another resistor in series. It would be easier if you had a wider selection, but by series and parallel connection, you should be able to get it to work with what you have.

You also need to limit the gate. But, you may be ok on that for now. I don't know how long you ran your breadboard prototype, but since you are flying "seat of the pants", I'd let it run for 5 days on a 9 volt battery to see if anything smokes. Leave it outside in a concrete or metal container away from combustibles. 9 volt batteries can surprise you in a bad way.

Normally, you'd have the performance data on each component and you'd design the circuit to keep everything in its respective sweet spot. Don't know how much info you have on these components, but without it, I would pick resistors so that the LEDs were visible, but not terribly bright (what every one says about me). Of course, you would want to do this with the proper length of wire in the circuit.

Buying good stuff with spec sheets may cost a bit more. Might be worth trying an iteration or two with what you have on hand. You can't eat it on your cereal. Might as well try to use it on a project.

You got this!